Pangaea

In other words, countries have the right to defend themselves against attacks from the US and others. Agreed :thup:

Dr. Hook

:ucks and runs for cover::

Ignats75

Pangaea,

I hate to break it to you--it was the Americans who were attacked or are you so lost in your LLM world that you forgot what happened on 11 September 2001?

iajafer

Yeah, Pangaea, for goodness' sake...the Americans were totally blameless, they had done nothing at all to provoke those nasty Arabs into taking such action and had every right to invade a Country suspected of producing Weapons of Mass Destruction, training Al Quaeda operatives and being lead by a despot who was killing his own citizens by the thousand.

One out of three isn't bad.

Stop playing LLM and smell Mom's home made brownies.

gfairbairn

Ignats75,
True we were attacked on 9-11. But that has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq and the whole world knows it.

Cosmo-poof

If you step intentionally on a cat's tail all the time, and the cat scratches your eyes out, it's not because the cat is the embodiement of pure evil. There's not a single country that has waged war so often in the past 300 years than the US.

Against Great Britain, Mexico, Spain, themselves, against native American tribes, against North Korea and China, against Japan, Germany, Italy, Vietnam, Burma, Laos, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq. Did I forget something? Oh, of course I did! Against Serbia, Cuba, Guinea-Bissau, Sudan, Honduras, Peru, Ekuador, South Africa, Cambodia, Kongo, Sierra Leone, Kenia, Zaire, Ruanda, Uganda, the Central African Republic, Liberia, Haiti, the Phillippines, Panama, Libya, the Dominican Republic, Egypt and Libanon.

Basically: against the whole world.

Some of these military actions were sanctioned by the UN, but most were nothing else but short, quick strikes. Bomb something, kill some dozens of civilians, make sure CNN doesn't see it, and if country XXX doesn't agree to whatever you say, bomb some more.

If you don't believe it, just check some books about history.

gfairbairn

If you step intentionally on a cat's tail all the time, and the cat scratches your eyes out, it's not because the cat is the embodiement of pure evil. There's not a single country that has waged war so often in the past 300 years than the US.

Against Great Britain, Mexico, Spain, themselves, against native American tribes, against North Korea and China, against Japan, Germany, Italy, Vietnam, Burma, Laos, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq. Did I forget something? Oh, of course I did! Against Serbia, Cuba, Guinea-Bissau, Sudan, Honduras, Peru, Ekuador, South Africa, Cambodia, Kongo, Sierra Leone, Kenia, Zaire, Ruanda, Uganda, the Central African Republic, Liberia, Haiti, the Phillippines, Panama, Libya, the Dominican Republic, Egypt and Libanon.

Basically: against the whole world.

Some of these military actions were sanctioned by the UN, but most were nothing else but short, quick strikes. Bomb something, kill some dozens of civilians, make sure CNN doesn't see it, and if country XXX doesn't agree to whatever you say, bomb some more.

If you don't believe it, just check some books about history. </BLOCKQUOTE>


Cosmo I am American and I Whole-heartedly agree with you, and to think I was in the US military. But we are bullies, I don't blame a single person for hating americans (just don't hate me :cool I realized this living outside the US for 10 years or so. You see how america is percieved and it opens your eyes as to what it really is like. This crap goes back long before 9-11. I hate the people that use that as an excuse.

Cosmo-poof

I absolutely do not hate the USA or Americans. I know quite some really nice people from the US, and it's just not fair to throw a whole nation of 300 million people into the same pot.

It just annoys me a lot if people think that others hate them "just because". Other people aren't idiots who get these ideas for no reason. But there are ignorant people anywhere, and it's arrogance and ignorance that are things I dislike. Not nationalities.

gfairbairn

That was a much better way to say what my babbling mind couldn't :p

Pangaea

Still nobody knows for sure who attacked the US that day my friend. And besides, what right has the US to attack country after country because some rogue elements in Afghanistan attacked the US (if they actually did it)?

This can turn into a migthy long discussion, and you will lose. As Cosmo pointed out above, the US has attacked a HUGE list of countries since its creation. Iraq is just the latest of a long list of horrible atrocities. Then we have all the other stuff they have been involved in, but not through their own special forces etc, so-called client-armies or forces trained in the US, and support for horrible regimes and dictatorships, such as Iraq before 1990.

And just to make it clear, nobody (except serious extremists) hate America, if you by America mean its people. If you however by America mean their (foreign) policy I agree, cause basically the entire world hates that.

Can also remind you that Nazi leaders got hanged after the Nurenberg-trials after WWII for similar crimes as the US leaders have committed against the Iraqi people. It is outrages that Bush and his fellow cronies have not indicted in any form. Clinton (also a horrible man) got a blowjob, and got indicted. Bush invades two countries and threatens to bomb a third, and not even threats about indicting him. What is worse, lying about a blowjob, or invading and killing hundreds of thousands of people?

9/11 was a horrible crime, but the only thing new about it was that the guns were facing in the other direction, so to speak. With the US' foreign policy, it's a miracle it hasn't happened before.