Dr. Hook

Holy Cow! We must have very different ideas on what constitutes a liberal. I have heard though, that what passes for the left in the U.S. might be considered conservative by European standards. Nonetheless, beeing called a liberal here does NOT end a political career, not even close. True, it might hamper a presidential election, but that's about it. There are just way too many liberals and leftists (again, by US standards) in government for that statement to be true. As for the media, I consider most of the major media outlets here to be left of center. Again, this might be down to our terms: what we are calling left and right.

Hmm, maybe we should move to this hut, though. Are you at the hut Pangaea?

gfairbairn

Have to diagree with you there Dr. Hook. Bush won his last election on the sole fact that he was a christian conservative. "Moral Values" won him over to the poor rural america that republicans destroy. yet, they don't care that republicans are against there very lifestyle. The fact that he leans very right. I know of only a couple truly liberal people in congress. Not enough of them in my books. You are corrct though that what we call liberal varies from european definition.

Holy Cow! We must have very different ideas on what constitutes a liberal. I have heard though, that what passes for the left in the U.S. might be considered conservative by European standards. Nonetheless, beeing called a liberal here does NOT end a political career, not even close. True, it might hamper a presidential election, but that's about it. There are just way too many liberals and leftists (again, by US standards) in government for that statement to be true. As for the media, I consider most of the major media outlets here to be left of center. Again, this might be down to our terms: what we are calling left and right.

Hmm, maybe we should move to this hut, though. Are you at the hut Pangaea? </BLOCKQUOTE>

gfairbairn

I think I screwed up my quote there.

Either way, bush won on "moral values" because he leans to the Christian Right of the line. Not enough liberals in office. Can really only think of two. two that at least are outspoken liberals. Being liberal in this country is frowned upon and is the whole reason Bush won his election in states like Missouri. Never mind that republicans are bad for Lower class families and farmers. "He's convservative, and a good christian." Conservatives, especially christian conservatives have a huge advantage over liberals over here and its a shame

Pangaea

Yeah I'm at the Hut from time to time. Where is stuff like this being discussed then?

Must be very distorted ideas of what constitutes a liberal and not if you say there are many liberals in government. Senate I can perhaps buy, I know at least a few, but that's about it. This just confirms my statement earlier I think, that American politicians are dead afraid of being called liberal, which agains is reflected in the right of center newsoutlets. What media would you call left of center. And please don't say NYT. It's not left of center. They were screaming for war just as much as the rest, and they have a pro-corporate journalistic profile.

Being called liberal once won't destroy your political career, but being known for being one, can. Just look at the low number of liberals/leftists/progressives in the Senate. It is crowded by right-wing nutjobs like Bush' cronies, and they are running the show. Bad news for everybody except the rich in the US, and possible the rich other places as well. People are quite familiar with his policies both abroad and at home. Don't need any arguments there really.

elgreco

Excellent debate there! :thup:

What is the "hut"? I would like to follow this debate.

In order to complete my post with something constructive concerning something that was mentioned in the first page of the thread, I would like to share a quote I read somewhere concerning the difference between patriotism and nationalism:

"Nationalism is when others have to lose something for the good of the country,
Patriotism is when YOU are ready to lose something for the good of the country."

However, I don't remember who said that.

wewak

You don't find the hut, the hut finds you :thup:

mkus

A link to the hut

Hogie

"Patriotism is when you wave a flag. Nationalism is when you try to plant it in another country."

wewak

It's a recruitment drive :eek:

Hogie

Jabba.... isn't that some sort of internet language.... :o