retired_rayrhi

Thank you 2ndchance. My sentiments exactly. I have read this thread of yours (all nicely complemented with screenshots), and I could have written up the same thing if I had the same patience and determination as you. The evidence is plain to see, but so many refuse to see it, and try and justify it. It's always been the case with this game. People are too scared to 'let go' and face up to the truth. Still, it doesn't alter my enjoyment of the game too much.

retired_mgavlick

You know I'm not going to agree with you

My tactical set gives a big advantage to the user. Managing the set correctly (which is difficult; I often get it wrong) turns the advantage into consistency.

I have seen the A! get undeserved wins against me. The question is whether it is for tactical and management reasons or dodgy programming. I prefer to believe the first, you the second. Never the twain shall meet.

However concise my explanation is, neither I nor you can be sure your (or anybody else's) interpretation of it is exactly how I intended (it's all in Derrida and Bauman!!) I agree one-hundred percent the AI severely punishes poor decisions and bad tactics. Equally, perfect tactics and decisions can severely punish the AI (we both have had double figure wins when that happens). My FM focus has always been the management side over the footballing. I know management much better than I know football, so I play with that knowledge at the forefront of my brain. You undoubtedly know football better than I do. That is where I believe your frustrastion to lie. You say 'this doesn't happen in football. Humbug!' I say 'I can manage the game so it won't happen.' Different strokes, different folks.

I see your empirical evidence at FMB. I see where your frustration is. However, I could provide a similar amount of empirical evidence proving the opposite. Unfortuantley, all such evidence proves is 'your game' offers these results. I know you want to open people's eyes to the flaws and are focused on FM becoming a better game, but it is an impossible task. Some will agree, some will not. It's life. Doesn't mean it's not worth the effort though.

Sky King

For those who believe the AI is overcompensated, I'd suggest you take a look at Cleon's achievements; winning the Premiership with Sheffield in the first season, not only that, but with only one loss.

So there are ways to overpower AI, even if they are overcompensated.

retired_fitnessconnection

Well i've reached season three for only the second time on 07(first time on earlier patch) and it's a major doubt whether i start another game?.

Playing this release has proved more fun testing and showing the games many failures than actually trying to get a career started and that's just plain sad.

I've only gone so far with this last game because i was told that not all my evidence was sufficient proof if i only ever play the first season(a good point), but now one that i think i have cleared up!.

It's not my intention to ridicule the game unfairly, i challenge all issues with evidence and the only reason i do any of it is because i want the game to be better, so that i can keep on purchasing it.

If no improvements are made to the issues i have raised then i quite simply wont buy FM 08, what would be the point?.

Sky King

Mate, you are relatively successful manager I reckon.
If that is the case, why do you bother so much as to try revealing what you think are the flaws of the game?
Why don't you instead simply enjoy the game?

As far as I'm concerned I don't care too much whether AI cheats, so long as I smash them to championships year in and year out.

retired_fitnessconnection

Maybe we should go into Football Management together?.

Seriously though, your one of few people i'd take at their word for having the evidence you suggest, but unless we're talking Cup upsets and such. i've seen little or no evidence so far that a human manager ever comes out winning after being absolutely tonked during a game?.

retired_fitnessconnection

Simply because i find it no fun whatsoever watching the 2D action ready to tweak, when the game i'm watching barely resembles football at all.

I'm a football fan after all.

In real life terms, i stopped going to watch my beloved Hammers when Alan Pardew was in charge, because most of what i witnessed was long ball stuff which i despise.

retired_rayrhi

I think you are asking 2ndchance, but I'll answer anyhoo.

I certainly am successful NOW, but there was a time when I was struggling, and there was never a clear reason as to why. Clearly my tactical set-up was dodgy even though I applied my 'real-life' logical theory, which I have picked up from playing from the tender age of 5, on to a high level as I grew a bit. I know the game of football, and I know what I am asking of the FM engine, but it does not always translate. The reason I have been trying to pick holes in the game is purely from an empathic and altruistic stand-point. I can relate to all of the disgruntled fans that are 'stuck in a rut', and I feel for them. They pretty much get smacked in the face with a wet fish when they come on here 'complaining' about the game. People like 2ndchance, Chand, and I are attempting to openly and constructively discuss the facets of the game that are questionable, and certainly open to improvement. Success or no success, it matters how the game is designed, and it matters that we receive no feedback or input from SI. Not all people have the know-how to adapt to the game, and often, the common-sense approach gets you nowhere in this game. My success now is not based upon my real-life thoughts on formation and strategy. I have simply adapted and learned how to beat it. I'm not sure this is why I want to play FM...

retired_jveklund

I have actually seen my team owned to high heaven and still come out on top to a point where I could not believe my own good fortune. Unfornunately I have no screenshots or anything else to back it up, but is has happened to me once or twice.

retired_mgavlick

Maybe we should go into Football Management together?.

Seriously though, your one of few people i'd take at their word for having the evidence you suggest, but unless we're talking Cup upsets and such. i've seen little or no evidence so far that a human manager ever comes out winning after being absolutely tonked during a game?. </BLOCKQUOTE>

The only reason I have such evidence is down to my first season in the Premiership with Wycombe. 2,000-1 to win the title and serously outgunned in player quality (due to three successive promotions and the board deciding to spend all our money on ground improvements). I literally had to win via less chances or I would go down (I was dead last with 8 games to go and won 5 of them to survive comfortably). Not many FMers have seen those kind of odds and hence haven't had to go the 'backs to the wall' route. Believe me, it is more than possible to frustrate the AI the same way it frustrates you.