Luketi

Rashidi:

That´s what I´ve expected with this thread: to get some thoughts as useful as yours. In fact, I agree (from what I´ve seen) that there is no way to change the POSITION of the back four: they constantly push up. This is the way the match engine works, I suppose. But this is one of biggest problems when you face a fast attack: the through balls. The defensive line slider has to be revamped, because it has to be the position of back four. There is no way in this game to play with the back four close to the box at any circumstances. Even there´s is a problem with free-kicks positioning: the players DON´T STAY BACK. Arteta is right: a lot of probles could have been avoided if the manual wouldn´t be so poor, as well as feedback.

retired_kellyk

Leroy..

My mentalities are split...a defensive half and an attacking half. The defensive line sometimes get split into something more staggered.

For the attacking third my mentalities are usually around 12. Their closing down is set to max. You are right in that mentality has an effect on positioning. Closing down tells them how much to close down and for me Defensive line tells them when to do it. So if your mentality is very high...he could be stuck way up the pitch for instance and you tell him to close down often and the defensive line is deep. You could find a situation where the player tries to drop into his zone, failing which someone else comes in..which is usually the player lying in the deeper zone..

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">****** P************************P2*************</pre>

Apologies for this...The marked area around P is his zone, ball goes over the top...if you are playing a high defensive line...P2 will come get the ball. If you are playing a low defensive line P will try and drop back.

So far adjusting for defensive line tweaks alone seems to make it really easy for me to use tactics. I seldom push D-line all the way, unless I want to go all out for a goal, and I absolutely must play with the offside trap on. If I play a deep dline, my backline tends to sit back. allowing the other team to get more of the ball in midfield.

retired_hope

Thanks Rashidi, I will try this set-up to see if I can observe the effect.

P.S. Everyone seems to mention that they want defensive line to control the positon of the back line.

If this is the way it worked, people would still have issues, because by playing a deep line you would be offering space to the opposing team, even when your team has the ball. This is would be a permenent large gap between the back line and the mid line, assuming a flat 442.

In the 2nd Chelsea vs Athletico match above, if Luketi had been able to set the D-line to deep and the back for stayed positioned there, then this would not have stopped Essien's goal, it may have even caused a few more.

Also, your team would become less potent in attack, especially if you play a short passing game.

retired_kellyk

The way I see it...you go deep, midfielders begin their tackles later. Its like a slider rule. That's just my personal observation. Whether its the official way it should be interpreted is not mine to say. Yes your example of luketis is right...if he had taken a really deep dline against an attacking team...that would have been asking for trouble. But in real life which team in the right mind is going to sit back and hope that they can withstand that kind of pressure.

It would require tremendous determination, composure and anticipation. Which is why some of the results where we see underdogs beat topdogs is when they actually close them down aggressively in midfield and not allow them any time on the ball.

retired_rjw13838

Which is exactly why the manual tells you you should plug that gap by giving the midfielders defensive mentality, or use a DMC instead.

It would be less potent in attack, but stronger defensively. And just like a high tempo suggest direct passing and a slow tempo suggest short passing, playing deep suggest longer passing. Doesnt mean of course you cant play deep and short, just like it doesnt mean you cant play short and quick.

retired_hope

I mean when you are attacking high up the pitch, if the D-line stayed back whilst you were in possession high up the pitch, just imagine the space this would give. Even a normal line.

retired_krpotram

I play with the defensive line pushed up in maximum but the only problem is , if the oposittion have a gk who kicks the ball quickly sometimes the full backs are still out of position and theres a great danger in quick counter atacks.
I am playing in a 4 def 2 mid 2 wing 2 fw
sometimes i need do put a barrow in my defensive midfielder and put one of the strikers as a support. But normally in that situation i put my defensive line in the first normal.
I am playing online with a friend in the portuguese league and in the last game i was playing away against Leixoes (with Sporting) and despite having by far more shots i find myself 1-1 in the 80 m . Then i did what i explain and i managed to score 2 times with 2 plays in the wings.

retired_curly123

The d-line is not useless.

It just only comes into play when the opposition has the ball in YOUR half of the field.

I played some friendlies with Porto to re-check this, as this was already confirmed by SI about the d-line in another thread. What I found with Porto was with a d-line of 1 my defence dropped back much further than with a d-line of 20.

I played with my midfielders on mentality of 20 to examine the gap between defence and midfield when using different d-line settings of 1 and 20. When using the d-line setting of 1 it was very obvious that there was a large gap between defence and midfield.

So the manual is correct in needing more defensive midfield mentalities when using a deep d-line.

I found that simply setting 1 of my MC's in a 4-4-2 to a defensive setting is enough to help plug the gap between defence and midfield in general play. In dead ball situations like goal kicks, however, the midfield starts out all in 1 line regardless of the mentality settings they are given.

So those are the results of my experimentation with Porto in friendlies.

retired_hope

Well Rashidi, I am now convinced by what you say. After hours of playing the slider game, I now believe that closing down and defensive line sliders to be related as you suggest.

My crude drawing indicates how I believe the sliders to be related to in terms of player position and where they will close down the opposition. I have not included the position effect of creative freedom, forward runs or arrows for clarity.



Defensive line has two main effects, it changes the position you defenders will take when your team loses possession and it also affect where your whole team will start to close down the opposition. Defensive line is effected slightly by mentality as the player will position themselves slightly differently in relation to the ball.

Rashidi could you comment on whether you think this is an accurate description of what you experience, or anyone else who has anything to input.

retired_hope

http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?i...effectsxv0.png