retired_kellyk

How did you go from making a conclusion that mentality affects positioning to making a rule that its linked to defensive line and TB/CB? And what is TB/CB?

I generally don't see the need to change your mentality in a game, defensive line perhaps. But not mentality. My preferred mentality settings are infact 12-14...depending on the type of tactic and how my arrows are set up.

retired_rayrhi

Observations
From these two screenshots alone, in the first testing game I have played, it is clear how significant mentality actually is. My first conclusion would be to state that mentality is PURELY POSITIONAL BASED. I have noticed that players do not pass any differently. I do not see the Man Utd players playing only backward passes. Quite often the full backs would play a direct ball down the wings. There is clearly no difference between Chelsea and Man Utd with regards to passing the ball. I can honestly say that the screen shots posted are consistent scenarios throughout the whole match. These are not one off occurences. I would be hear until 2012 if I posted every snippet of 'evidence.'

The back fours
Ball with Evra
• Man Utd back 4 is staggered — RF and NV have pushed back due to mentality.
• Man Utd back 4 are man marking the Chelsea strikers quite simply because Drogba and Sheva are as far up as they can be (look how far they have pushed up!) without being offside. They clearly fall in to the Man Utd CBs marking zone.

Ball with Cole
• Chelsea back 4 have pushed up due to their mentality settings. Notice how they are basically in a line. Man Utd's line was staggered. Chelsea's CBs have clearly pushed up.
• Notice how WR and LS have backed off from Chelsea's CBs due to their mentality settings. This is sacrificing possession to Chelsea across its defensive line, but is clearly helping the midfield. Notice that while Evra has the ball for Man Utd, DD and AS are sacrificing defensive duties all together.

Midfields
Ball with Evra
• Notice that with the defensive sacrifice of the Chelsea strike force has given Evra 2 clear passing options (carrick and Giggs) and one, admittedly, ambitious pass to Ronaldo. It is worth noting here just how close to Evra, Ryan Giggs actually is. He clearly is in a defensive position.
• Notice how high up the Chelsea midfield is and the gap that it is leaving in between the Chelsea back 4. It makes you drool when you consider the prospect of playng Rooney in the second-striker role taking full advantage of that space. Chelsea's all out attacking style here shows very real fragility.

Ball with Cole
• "Get back Michael! Get back Frank!" Edwin has clearly shouted something drastic to the Chelsea midfield duo because they both have lost it and are storming straight toward the Dutch shot-stopper. Look how they both have instantly left their midfield positions to join the attack. This unforgivable midfield faux pas (one always sits, it's been drummed into me for years) has left poor Ashley high and dry. The only real option he has is to run at Rooney (not recommended) or play it to Carvalho. Notice how this attacking style has not allowed for a slow build up. MENTALITY AND PASSING LINKED?!!! Defensive and short, attacking and direct? Let's hold that thought.
• Look at Joe Cole and Arjen Robben. Remember how Giggsy offered that short passing option for Evra, well it's clear that AJ and JC have become 3rd and 4th strikers. With a bit of ability and luck, it could be possible for Cole to play a wonder pass to either of the wingers, but at the minute, passing is set all the way left, so it's doubtful he would try this. Imagine one centre back set to a defensive mentality. Now that might be a useful weapon for Chelsea...
• Notice how Man Utd have formed a midfield 'wall' in front of Chelsea's back-four. There is no such gaping gap that the Chelsea midfield left when Evra had it. Sir Alex would feel very secure at this point.

Strikers
At this point, the only thing I notice is that Man Utd's strikers are deeper than Chelsea's and thus more loosely marked.

Key Takeaways/Considerations
— When you attack, you widen the gap bewtween your defense and midfield leaving a dangerous gap for an AM or SS to expose
— When you attack, you shorten the gap between your midfield and attack. Pretty obvious, but I am positive that with some well placed mixed mentalities, you can fill these gaps.
— Playing defensively seems to suit the short passing game because players are closer together.
— Playing offensively seems not to suit the short passing game because there are less passing options.
— THIS GAME CAN ONLY BE MASTERED BY WATCHING THE FULL MATCH. THIS IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS TO ME NOW.

Half-Time stats
Man Utd 2 Chelsea 0
Man U shots: 7 — Chelsea shots 0
Man U on target 7 — Chelsea on target 0
Man U off target 5 — Chelsea off target 0
Man U possession 48% — Chelsea possession 52%
Man U pass comp. 73% — Chelsea 71%
Man U tackles 33% — Chelsea 56%
Man U headers 58% — Chelsea 50%

My first thoughts are how bloody time consuming and daunting this task is. I think the main challenge will be sticking with it to be honest. if we could get enough testers we could assign them to different sliders and hopefully get this done quicker. The light at the end of the tunnel is just how rewarding this is and how damn helpful just a little effort has been. If we do actually undertake this challenge with resilence and determination, there is absolutely no dobt in my mind that we can discover for ourselves what each slider does. I'm off to bed now, it's 1:17am here (6:17am your time)

retired_rayrhi

I am more interested in the observable facets of the match engine since this is where I get my enjoyment from. Teamtalks will not make any difference since I am not interested in performance or results, just observable effects of the sliders.

Using a 4-4-2 no arrows as to not alter the positions of the players. I am using 2 human teams of similar ability with one team playing one extreme of the tested slider, and the other team the other extreme. From my mentality experiment this has provided a very nice contrast. All sliders that are not being tested are set to the far left for minimal impact.

I am not not interested in what works and what may be effectivem it's irrelevant for this experiment. I merely want to discover what each of the slider does at it's most simplistic form in order to effectively combine them for future tactics.

retired_rayrhi

This is NOT a set piece

retired_rayrhi

Rashidi, I beg to differ. I think that screenshots are actually more than ample evidence of slider actions. Take this last screenshot for example. It looks as though Carvalho is about to take a free-kick, but I can assure you that this is actually Chelsea in possession! The Man Utd back 4 did not dare venture past their own half-way line. Clearly, the Chelsea back-four have no such issue with it. I am not concerned with statistics in the slightest. The more subjective the evidence, the more observable in my opinion. This type of screenshot is exactly what I am looking for. It is very hard to deny such an image I think you all would have to agree.

retired_kellyk

Fair enough...screenshots should be enough to verify that mentality affects positioning. I'd agree with that statement myself since I firmly believe that is true

retired_rayrhi

Yeah, but I do agree with you to a certain extent that it may not be so cut and dry with other sliders, and that mentality is a fairly obvious observational tool. Maybe I will need to look a little deeper later.

Where on earth do you live, Rashidi? Why aren't you tucked up in bed, mate?

retired_kellyk

I'm the Crypt Keeper remember? +8GMT ..sun sets in a couple of hours time.

retired_acivin

Hey guys,

Really sorry, couldn't come online after last night. Internet got disconnected.

Anyways, been reading stuff here. The ones mentioned by Arteta and Barca4ever. I kind of agree on that as well. That mentality affects positioning. I also thought that mentality affects passing, i.e. the attacking nature of it anyways.

So I am just going to run a quick game as ManU v/s Chelsea and come at some conclusions.

retired_kellyk

Why don't you guys reduce everything to "zero" no forward runs, no TTB, no RWB and then see if mentality affects the attacking play or not. I personally have never been abs certain that mentality affects the quality of play. There is a linkage between team mentality and closing down, but its tenous at best