retired_rayrhi

Sorry to pee on your bonfire, but of how many games have you tested this theory? How can you prove that this is indeed true? Do you have any screenshots of this in action? I'm sorry to come across like a t*at, but it's really easy to submit a 'theory' after winning a game or two and claiming it to be 'concrete.' The complexity of it all just sounds a little over-the-top to me, and it makes no logical sense that the defensive line should affect closing down all over the pitch. Once again, this just seems like a good way to patch up SI's shortcomings and let them get away with a half-arsed inadequate explanation of what the defensive line does—because I'll tell you one thing, having your defensive line on 1 or 20 doesn't seem to have the slightest observable difference on the pitch. I think this is a splendid idea, but without proof, it's just another theory. Sorry to be be so cynical, but it's almost tine for 08 and we still don't know what the defensive line does. Acceptable? I think not.

retired_kellyk

Leroy well done mate, very nice. You've explained things in a really good way. Makes the game so much easier doesn't it? For the rest...this is not a theory, its an observation I've been making since the game was launched when we first discussed Dlines...back then we all agreed on the screen high and low seems the same, even then I suggested the key lay in how the team closed down. I will not call this atheory, for me personally its a fact. Its been my approach to creating tactics...as many of those who have tried my tactics will know...is that I went from max closing down to staggered closing down.

I haven't been the only one who has observed this, there have been others as well, who just tweak with dlines and widths. I don't advocate making wholesale changes to any tactic.

There's a relationship between "TEAM MENTALITY" and DEFENSIVE LINE as well.. For now I think its more important people understand how DLine and Closing Down works...team mentality is like the final piece and not a defining one at that.

To answer horik's question... Worry about your closing down instructions first...get them to work. If they are workng fine then adjust for Dline...there is no mathematical relationship.

The style I find that works is this...know your formation, set it right, ideally you want a set of closing down instructions that are staggered. Low at the back and maxed out in front. Now once you have set that up, use the DLine slider to add or reduce pressure. This is the best way. The most easy formations for this approach to work with is the 442.

You can change the way your side attacks and defends without having to change closing down. If you tactic works and you see it working, DO NOT CHANGE THE CLOSING DOWN unless players are badly out of position. Use the Dline to reduce increase pressure and use the width to stay compact or loose. Once you understand this..things become easy, and all you are looking at is player conditions or poor form. And you can use teamtalks to rev things up...I have a thread which covers all that in the Creating tactics reasoned way... In that thread I've taken two formations one a 424 or a weird 442 and a 433 and in both formations all i do is adjust dlines. I've used the same approach for well over 2 seasons in game time...just sticking to one formation.

Its a total approach to this game thats needed,you need to manage your men, manage your tactic and manage your expectations.

retired_hope

No this was just an example for people who want to play with a deeper line due to fast oppositon strikers.

I normally set up individual closing down on my defence. I then leave the rest of the players to team closing.

if I want to go more aggressive I increase the d line by 2 and the team closing by 3. This has the effect of increasing the black line by 5 which is about an extra quarter of the pitch higher.

I could have just increase my D-line by 5 to achieve the same thing, however if I did this the positon of may backline would have increase too much for my liking, If the oppositon have fast strikers I am increasing the space behind the defense just by raising D-line.

retired_hope

Luketi, mentality does complicate things, I will need to come up with some more diagrams for that. However as Rashidi says, understanding the ideas in this thread are the most important, the positonal tweaks using mentality are definately secondary.

The only important thing to remember is that if playing a deep line, then you will need to change mentality settings of at least 1 midfielder, or just play them in the DMC position. This is because you need to fill the gap between the midfield and defence will increase as you play a deeper line.

Arteta, I know it is hard to try new suggestions on how the game works.

I was sceptical when I first read about Rashidi and how he was using d-line. I saw the positonal effects of the D-line and assumed that

However I gave it a go, couldn't see it a first, so I asked more questions. Eventually it seemed so obvious, I could not believe it.

I could post evidence, but why should I do all the work.

Give it a go, if you find it isn't working for you then post your findings or just dismiss the idea as another Red Herring that makes up some of the theories on the forum.

I usually find elements of fact in most of the tactical discussions, it's just a case of building up an idea of how you observe the game to work.

retired_Myoplex

i'm currently playing as Gateshead in Conference North with Aston's tactics, i thought i would implement these into it, i went on holiday, came back after a few days and found that i had beaten some non-league team 3-0 away (i drew the first game at home!) i've taking a few screenies and will show you some evidence of this working:

Match Stats

Notice the amount of tackles won

Away Stats

Notice the amount of interceptions and the amount of successful tackles the defense made

Just played my second game, drew 2-2 away to a side about 5/6 places below me in CNN (believe you, before aston's tactic, my away record was so bad!)

i went 1-0 up and then they crossed the ball to my far post where one of my defenders headered the ball into the back of my net from 2 yards, not under pressure!!

the second was a passback to the 'keeper who launched it to one of there strikers who was through on goal! i'm going out soon so will try to test this fact/theory as much as possible

retired_kellyk

There are essentially two threads to look out for...one where the original discussion began recently...here in Lunketi's thread

And in my thread I actually apply some of the principles where I use one tactic like the 424 and then go for results by adjusting just the dline and width.

Its hard to say something with unerring accuracy in this game. Because of the variables in the game, one cannot with certainty predict an outcome. However observing certain effects caused by keeping as many things constant and adjusting only the Dlines does have perceptible effects.

I know for certain, people who use the principles here and go use them on tactics not of their own creation will have difficulties. Its not unreasonable to expect them to have problems, simply because they haven't really found the "yin-yang" of the tactic. Every formation has to have an optimum closing down level for it to work right, it only makes sense. After that you just adjust DLine and width for risk and reward. I have been saying this for months now but as always I fully expect people to transplant these ideas to downloaded tactics and then claim they don't work

retired_rjw13838

So how come SI havent explained this to us? Just another example of leaving us with no clue of what the feck we are actually doing.

Im getting pretty fed up with the manual explaining things wrongly and SI not correcting it. The only thing were then left with, is one of the many theories on this board, but who do you believe?

One one hand for example we used to have Cleon who was convinced team mentality worked hand in hand with individual, whereas wwfan was convinced it just override it.

Besides, its taken just what? 8 months for people to finally understand how closing down works? Do SI not realize their explanations are inadequate, or do they just not give a rats ass? Either way, its just hugely dissapointing.

For FM08, I'll just wait buying it until patch 8.0.2 has been released after the january transfer window. By then, the game will be patched up and hopefully the tactics will have been worked out by then by the community. You just cant rely on SI for this, can you? Do the tacticians here even get a thank you for doings SI's work? If it wasnt for these people, how many would be playing the game and actually have a clue what they were doing?

/rant

retired_rjw13838

Do the tacticians here even get a thank you by SI for doing their work?

retired_janae55

I agree with you on the whole Benoit2, but you can't blame SI on this. There are probably loads of ways that Closing Down/ Dline etc etc can be implemented and of course SI can't possibly explain everything to us and consider every single scenario.

BUT, I agree that SI has done a fairly poor job regarding the manual and the helping of players to understand the game and its various aspects.

retired_hope

ubos

There are many different ways to set-up your D-Line and closing down to achieve what how you want your team to play.

But this appear to be how it works as a concept.