rashidi1

How do you mean that they're in the same position? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Imagine if the length of the pitch is 20 dots. If I play with a dline of 1 for instance, my team will go that deep before they make a tactic. So players will track back. What you have done is make your formation deeper. If your whole formation has players that are all on defensive mentality then it shouldn't be a problem, since they will all track back...

Now if you practise having your defenders on 1 and your mids on 10 and your strikers on 20. Then what you have done is positioned them further up the pitch when you do have the ball. But if you lose possession they have a much further distance to go before they return to their "Zero" point. So if a player has a mentality of 20..he's much further up when the team has the ball.

I don't hold much to the radius theory myself, because that's too simplified. Its much better to thing in terms of elasticity. If you had a rubber band and held it loosely thats its "zero" point. If you pull it or give it 20 for mentality you will stretch it.

Have you noticed how some players close down while others don't and why sometimes 2 players close down in the same area? How could that happen if a player has a defined radius of action?

Now in the case of Miguel Damas why would his case happen? Why would players lose their strikers?

1. Was the mentality of the defender too high?
2. A defender has a certain zone of influence when he is defending. He will commit himself early if you set his DLine too high up the pitch, he could also commit early if his mentality is too high, he could also be forced to commit early because there is nobody up there to fill the hole.

If you play using the defensive line as a slider and using closing down. How well you defend then becomes a function of how you have set up mentalities, closing down and width.

There are people who swear by one team mentality and that works as well. But if they are all on the same mentality and every one is closing down heavily, don't you think people are going to be caught out of positon?

Miguel I don't understand whats happening in your situation...

Your fullbacks should close down in own half or rarely...higher than your dcs of course. And they should not be given mixed RWB and if they are punting balls that come back to you, increase forward runs for the players who they are supposed to receive passes form.

If your fullback cannot play through balls well, reduce it, get them to cross from deep instead often.

crazy gra

How do you mean that they're in the same position? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Imagine if the length of the pitch is 20 dots. If I play with a dline of 1 for instance, my team will go that deep before they make a tactic. So players will track back. What you have done is make your formation deeper. If your whole formation has players that are all on defensive mentality then it shouldn't be a problem, since they will all track back...

Now if you practise having your defenders on 1 and your mids on 10 and your strikers on 20. Then what you have done is positioned them further up the pitch when you do have the ball. But if you lose possession they have a much further distance to go before they return to their "Zero" point. So if a player has a mentality of 20..he's much further up when the team has the ball.

I don't hold much to the radius theory myself, because that's too simplified. Its much better to thing in terms of elasticity. If you had a rubber band and held it loosely thats its "zero" point. If you pull it or give it 20 for mentality you will stretch it.

Have you noticed how some players close down while others don't and why sometimes 2 players close down in the same area? How could that happen if a player has a defined radius of action? </BLOCKQUOTE>Aha! It's finally clicked. Think I do understand all this now and it's all become clear \o/

The radius theory was good, but I can now see how this wouldn't fit in with the d-line. Cheers :thup:

Joor

Leroy1883 which program did you use to make those pictures ?

Leroy1883

I drew the base picture in Word and then edited it using Paint to add the lines.

crazy gra

Would you say that when using a high d-line that you wouldn't need to have CD very high for the likes of wingers and strikers? I think most people have these players closing down heavily to press the opposition defence and especially so that the strikers can capitalise on mistakes, but I'm assuming it wouldn't be neccessary to have their CD setting too high.

You also mentioned mentality affects this. Could you perhaps give a short explanation?

crazy gra

Another thing: In the pictures in the first post, you make it so that the space between each line of players (GK, defence, midfield, strikers) is 10 for each, but in the positions on the formation screen the defence is closer to the keeper.

Rashidi said about the pitch being 20 dots, but wouldn't it be more like 40? I say that in the case of having a d-line of 20, would mean that defenders would go closing down the ball really high up the pitch even when on a CD setting of 1.

Would it be right to assume that the d-line goes up to the half way line?

Leroy1883

It depends on how you want your team to play. I don't think their is anything wrong with closing down heavily with wingers or one striker all the time.

If you are playing successfully with a high defensive line the chance are that you will dominate the possesion. As closing down only comes into force when you are not in possession the amount of closing that your player actually do is less anyway, so they won't tire themselves out.

I just tick counter attacking if I want to achieve what you want. This way I don't have to change my settings.

Controversial Theory Alert
I think clicking counter attack does nothing more than reduce closing down for your team by a fixed amount.

Mentality isn't linked to closing down explicitly. It just changes the general position where your players operate and affect how often they will try Forward Runs, Try Though Balls, Run With Ball and Cross the Ball.

I believe Defensive Line 1 is the 18 yard box line and Defensive line 20 is the half way line.

Leroy1883

The Blue line is defensive line on 1.

The Purple line is defensive line on 20.

Closing Down start where the defensive line is set.

So if D-line is 20 then closing down set on 20 would be the Red line.

This is for general play.

The rule change when the ball is higher than the Red line or Lower than the Blue line.

The rules are similar except that closing down starts a the 18 yard line (e.g Closing Down 1) and ends at the goal line (e.g Closing Down 20).

crazy gra

It depends on how you want your team to play. I don't think their is anything wrong with closing down heavily with wingers or one striker all the time.

If you are playing successfully with a high defensive line the chance are that you will dominate the possesion. As closing down only comes into force when you are not in possession the amount of closing that your player actually do is less anyway, so they won't tire themselves out. </BLOCKQUOTE>I was confused when I wrote this, so what I wrote there doesn't really matter. Now that you've said about where the d-line operates, things have become clearer. I was thinking that a high d-line would be further up the pitch than the half way line, so if the d-line was very high then a CD of something like 15 would mean players on that setting would be closing down all the time as their 'red' line would be near the end of the pitch or perhaps over it. Therefore, (for example) if a 15 CD setting meant the red line was at the end of the pitch (opposition's goal/bye line), then a CD setting of 20 would have the same affect. Obviously, this isn't the case, so it doesn't matter now.

Hmm, interesting point. So you don't agree with wwfan's theory about it meaning that the team will only go forward when a good attacking opportunity opens up (not forgetting about tempo will affect that)?

Any possibility that mentality will change the effect to how much a player will back track when closing down or their intensity?

Is it not something simple that anywhere below the blue line opposition will always get closed down, and anywhere above the red line the opposition won't get closed down?

Cheers :thup:

Kazmodan

First I'd like to thank rashidi1 for figuring out how defensive line and closing down work and how they interact, and Leroy1883 for explaining it so clearly. You guys saved my whole FM-experience, I would've stopped playing if I hadn't read this thread.

After reading this I started a new game with my beloved Verbroedering Geel (Belgian Third Division A), my hometown club. I used a basic 4-4-2 with short farrows on the wings, team instructions everything on 10 except passing and tempo on 6 and width on 15. I also focussed passing down the flanks. The individual instructions where left on team with the exception of CF and CD. I used staggered CD (1 for the DC's, going up until 17 for the strikers) and CF (low at the back, higher up front). I had crossing and TTB on mixed for everyone, FR rarely for defenders en MC's, mixed for wingers and forwards. Long shots and RWB depended on individual players' ability.

I used this tactic in every game, only reducing width when I wanted to defend and increasing DL when I was in need of a goal. When I had to defend I also used employed counter-attacking (passing and tempo 15 and counterattack ticked).

I won the Third Division and thus promotion to Second Division despite the notable handicap of a -6 points deduction to start with. I am now 11 games into the second season and lying comfortably in 6th position (well above "bravely fight relegation" expectations) with basically the same team (I sold my star striker because he was unhappy and bought a replacement).

I'd say that wasn't too bad, so thanks a lot guys and keep up the good work!