The lack of transfer intelligence

ekclvria · 11-13-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fred:
The transfer system is crazy sometimes. I offer Jefferson Farfan from PSV a contract (im Tottenham) But for some reason he wants to join a club called "AZ" He is a big talent but he dont want to play for a better club?

AZ are a fairly big club in Holland... maybe he doesn't want to move country?

retired_pamjoseph · 11-13-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bearsy:
Over the years I have see the tranfer market develop quite considerably in FM. Let me say that I think that this current version is the best version so far, although it is by no means perfect.

I have recently just received an offer for one of my players that simply I find totally infuriating. I have just received an offer of 8.1m for Vidic, who is valued at 8.25m. He rated as an important first team player at a top tier team, yet Inter think they can get him cheap? I have also got the 'Do not wish to sell' option selected in his transfer status screen.

I wouldn't mind the cheeky offer if I had not declared him Unavailable for transfer and if he was just valued as a squad player. But he isn't. Surely the AI can see that I don't want to sell and that I rate him highly, so if they want to purchase him they HAVE to make an mouthwatering offer.

Now lets consider top players from other top tier clubs that are also rated as 'Important first team players'. Well there is Puyol at Barcelona, Ramos at Madrid, Albiol at Valencia, Terry at Chelsea and Toure at Arsenal. Now would any of those clubs accept an offer around their value for ANY of those players. No. We would have to pay around 40 or 50 million. So WHY do the AI think that we would accept anything less?

The way I see it is that should break it down into different categories for different tiered teams. A top tier team would be only the truely elite of world football. Only Man U, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Inter. I would probably include Chelsea as well given their financial muscle. The second tier would be Liverpool, Roma, Valencia, Juventus, Arsenal, Bayern. These teams have top players, however the majority of players playing for them would love to play for a top tiered team. There are very few players who would turn down Real madrid, Barcelona and Man U if they came knocking. Then you've got your third tier with Newcastle, Lyon, Spurs, Sevilla, Ajax, PSV, Werder Bremen, Deportivo etc. Obviously then you've got more tiers as you work your way through the football leagues.

I feel that the repuations of the clubs are just not working as they should be when related closely to the squad status given to the players. Here's how I think it should be. I'll attempt to break down what I feel teams should have to pay given the tier of the team and the squad status given by their manager.

Indispensible to club - Like Rooney, Kaka, Ronaldinho or Cristiano Ronaldo. Must be truely indispensible. Teams should only really have one or two and should not include players like Essien or Casillas. Both of whom are important, but not indispensible.

Top tier teams - The players simply would hardly ever want to leave therefore the majority of teams would never attempt to buy these players. These players would only come available if they wanted to leave and hence their squad status would remain the same. For example Shevchenko to Chelsea, or Beckham to Real.
Second Tier teams - These become pray for the Elite teams and as such should demand truely top whack money of around 50m, depending on position. For example, Gerrard almost went to Chelsea for 40m. Zidane went to Real for 45m from Juventus. Obvisouly these teams would not want to sell unless the player forced through the move a la Thiery Henry to Barcelona. Think Fabregas at Arsenal. He would fetch in excess of 40m from Barcelona and Arsenal would struggle to keep him.
Third Tier Teams - Here I am think of the 20-30m transfers of players like Essien to Chelsea, or Diarra to Madrid or Torres to Liverpool. Basically these top players will always want to leave so when a big club comes in with an offer then they clubs almost have no option but to sell. I'm sure if a top team, or even a second tiered team came in for Micah Richards then he would have gone for around 20-30m.

Important First Team player - Here I am thinking of Carragher, Ferdinand, van Nistelrooy, Puyol, Scholes, Van Persie. Top players, but could be replaced if necessary.

Top tier teams - These players are probably available for around 20m, depending on position. However, none would want to leave for a lesser club and offers from lower tiered teams would be in short demand. I am sure that if Arsenal or Roma came and offered 20m for Vidic then Fergie would have sold him, but would he have wanted to go?
Second Tier teams - Again these players would be available to top teams for a fair price. Perhaps 20% above their in game value. I am thinking of Toure or Carragher or even Van Persie. I'm sure that if Liverpool or Arsenal were offered a price of 20m+ then they would accept.
Third Tier Teams - Very similar to the second tier, except their values are scaled down due to the lesser reputation of the clubs. All of their players would be available to second and top tier teams for around about 20% above their in game value.

Squad Players

Top tier teams - Would be available for around about their in game value. For example lets look at Man U. Heinz and Smith left in the summer for very reasonable prices because they wanted to go. Players only leave these top teams for lesser teams if the player wants to go, due to lack of 1st team games, or the manager wants to free up some £££.
Second Tier teams - Again squad players would generally be available for around their in game asking price. They are easily replaced. The only difficulty is whether they want to leave.
Third Tier Teams - Can often be gained cheaply around their asking price because they can easily be replaced. See Parker left Newcastle and was replaced by Barton. I dare not think how much we would have had to pay in game to get Parker from Newcastle if we were West Ham!

All lower squad status like Back Up for 1st Team and Not Needed should be available for less than their asking price and the players should actively be seeking a new club, unless of course they are enjoying a nice wage at a top or second tiered club, eg Winston Bogarde at Chelsea or Solskjaer at Man U.

Hot Prospect
This is a different matter all together. They should be quite pricey when buying from a second tiered team or lower, although they should not exceed 10m. When Rooney left Everton he was an established international and would not have been considered a Hot Prospect by Everton at the time.

Buying hot prospects from top teams simply does not happen until they have developed to a point where it is clear they are not going to be a success, like Rossi at Man United. Messi would never have been bought by anyone due to his high potential at an early age. The stealing of Fabregas from Barce was negligence on their part, which they no doubt regret now.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on how the transfer system should work. Feel free to disagree, but I just feel that if the transfer market in FM ressembled something similar we would have a much more enjoyable and realistic game.

Disclaimer: Please ignore my spelling. Thanks

Only one little opinion: Casillas is the most important player for Real Madrid, all Real Madrid supporters know it. He is the ONLY indispensible player in the squad.

retired_knightranger · 11-13-2007, 11:15 AM

sounds to me like inter were just trying to unsettle Vidic, it's a tactic I try very often to blag other peoples players. Get them upset and then nab them on the cheap when they won't sign a new contract. Hello Dos santos on a free

retired_katiqua4 · 11-13-2007, 11:39 AM

I like the way how you all portray Arsenal as inferior to Man Utd and Chelsea, not seen the league table recently?? it goes like this this:

1) Arsenal
2) Man Utd

retired_naidkaad · 11-13-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lewis999:
I like the way how you all portray Arsenal as inferior to Man Utd and Chelsea, not seen the league table recently?? it goes like this this:

1) Arsenal
2) Man Utd

Please don't take it in that way. I am in no way a Man U fan, or any of the big 4. I support Newcastle

I was just trying to rank the teams in terms of financial muscle and reputation. (Anyway the league has been won by Man U and Chelsea over the last 3 seasons. Not Arsenal

)

retired_naidkaad · 11-13-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xouman:

Only one little opinion: Casillas is the most important player for Real Madrid, all Real Madrid supporters know it. He is the ONLY indispensible player in the squad.

Yip. As I said lower down i'm not really that big a follower of Spanish football. But you do confirm my belief that Real, like most others should, have only 1 Indispensible player.

retired_naidkaad · 11-13-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by heron:
Good post bearsy, and I do agree with you on the reputation issue. But we're quite limited here by the amount of 'indispensable' players you get in your squad after a few years. When managing a top team, you need to offer far too many players the 'key player' status when offering him a new contract, otherwise they won't sign. Right now, in 3rd season, I've got like 6-7 'indispensable' players in my team, which is far too many.

The board shouldn't allow this. I think there should be a limit to the number of 'key' and 'important first team' players you can have in your squad. But then, the game should take this into account when we have to renegotiate a contract with our players to prevent them from becoming unhappy.

Maybe the game should assign squad status depending on how frequent they play? I.e. if I only played Lampard every other game he would drop from Indispensible to first team player, or squad rotation?

Actually thinking about it i'm not sure I like that thought

I could get an injury to my keeper and have to play Robinson in every game and then he would become indispensible. Oh just imagine the horror!

retired_kellynew1212 · 11-13-2007, 08:24 PM

Where would Celtic & Rangers come in?

retired_nedim · 11-13-2007, 10:16 PM

Ok, the idea is good. Your team listing in tiers is rubbish, and your ideas of whos dispensible and whos not is trash as well. However, the basic idea has some merit.

I think to be fair the problem is the total randomness and repetativeness of offers. Which would not need this tier system to be fixed, it would just need some small changes in the AI coding.

PTS · 11-13-2007, 10:31 PM

it's a fair comment to a point but remember, football can be scrupulous. maybe inter were doing what i do. bid for a player round about his value hoping to destabalise him or even get upset the transfer request was turned down, somtimes they even hand in a transfer request. think underhand, think real madrid.

The lack of transfer intelligence

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The lack of transfer intelligence