retired_hope

The visual effect of defensive line is clearly visible to me. The defenders position themselves relative to the position of the ball on the pitch when not in posession.

I agree this isn't the same point on the pitch, but it is the same point relative to the ball. Other tactical instructions may interfere with this such as man-marking, tight marking, forward runs and closing down.

But it is definately visible.

If you want to play possesion football you will have to play with a high defensive line and short passing, but if you don't have the players to do it well then you are less likely have success with this style of play.

retired_ggrose

Leroy love your location!

So what would you say was the D Line? Is it the line that your midfield will fall back too or is it the line that your defenders will hold?

Before it was mentioned that it was the line that the midfield will hold whilst I always had the belief that it was to do with the position that your defence will fall back although this then becomes confusing as Mentality is what should effect the positioning of players on the pitch.

retired_keller5089

chandaman's post on 2aug was awesome, totally accurate.

there are people out there who spend SOOOO long playing the game they learn how to "clock" it. Now, whilst this admirable i do not think it necessarily shows a great understanding of football, it shows a great understanding of the game, and i do not believe these 2 things are the same.

I think somebody who is knowledgeable on football should be able to pick this game up and do well straight away. Maybe not have immediate success, but certainly get a team playing well and winning games, and then improve as you learn how the game works.

people who are not so knowledgeable on real football should be able to pick up this game and make themselves more knowledgeable.

retired_FaultyFate

These 2 things are NOT the same. Formula 1 pilot may not be successful in car race simulation, and someone who does not know how to drive a real car can be very succesful in a race game.

Could be, but not necessary. To play this game (not real football) more or less succesfully one need to learn at least bacics of the game. One of the problem that often occurs is that people cannot translate their exceptional (or poor) knowledge of real football into the game language. As a result, they claim the game is unrealistic, it cheats, etc. Btw, these forums are excellent source for translation, but, like any dictionary, it's not complete source. And anyway, even if I learn grammar and all words in Spanish dictionary, I won't be able to actually speak Spanish unless I practice.

If someone wants to know more about real football, there are much better sources to learn than the game.

The main problem is an assumption that one SHOULD be successfull in the game. Imo, one CAN be successfull in the game if he either:

1)lucky to pick up right tactic etc. from the very beginning;

or

2)spend some time learning the game (what sliders do, how team talks work, etc. It requires time and patience as the game is quite complex at least for a newby;

or

3)read manual, these forums or any other source about the GAME and try to build understanding.

I think 1) is unlikely, because what works for one team may not work for another. A combination of 2) and 3) is the best way to go. Depending on whether one has enough time, share of 2) in the combination can vary.

retired_hope

My understanding is it that defensive line controls where you defenders position themselves relative to the position of the ball when your team is not in possession.

Mentality works in a similar positioning principle, but this applies all of the time to all players.

JeffRogers

but i do change if things go disasterously wrong but when things like losing 5-3 to a bottom 6 team in germany after starting the season with 16 wins and 2 draws 0 defeats conceding just 5 goals in total (is this unbelievable?) is hard to take and then drawing 3-3 the next 3 games and conceding 2-4 goals for the next 5 games totally ruining my GA rating without reason! ive never once complained about super-goalies either! EVER! you can go check if you like!!!! or if you cant? ask a mod to do it for you!

i do believe that the prem is where the most problems arise as ive took over celta at xmas in 17th and came 2nd by 2 points and in germany right now i have an 80% win ratio (outperforming ultra-defensive tacs), unbeaten in cups and europe! with italy also being a 'walk in the park'!

regarding the west brom tac, i went the whole first half undefeated (23 games) winning 16 and then went the other half losing 12?

theres no logic in that! and then beat teams like arsenal in the prem. most people would kill for for an arse beating tictac!!

all this, this week alone with no sophistication whatsoever!

retired_rayrhi

bob, I think FM07 really lacks consistency. It seems that some seasons you are just destined to do well, where everything you touch turns to gold, and sometimes you can't buy a bloody win. The fact that you can succeed with pure luck is ridiculous. I have read stories on these forums of people who know nothing about the game succeeding simply because they do. I have an American friend who I play with who is clueless with regards to 'soccer' and he took Blackburn to 3rd place in season 1 while I was languishing nervously above the drop zone with Newcastle. The game does lack logic. The knowledgeable footballer is not rewarded for 'footballing' strategies. In fact, the user is often punished by the AI and its laser targeting shooting system. Numerous times I have sat in front of the screen scratching my head after another 2-0 home loss and simply thought 'What the hell do I do? All avenues have been exhausted'. I have also sat in front of the screen on numerous occasions after succeeding in the Premiership with various teams thinking 'How the hell did I do that?' Both questions are unanswerable yet touch upon the game's biggest problem—A TOTAL LACK OF LOGIC.

retired_FaultyFate

arteta,

I have actually started to think that game has a good logic, though its own logic. How AI can let us know that it found a hole in our tactics? Stats don't tell us too much, so there must be another way. And I think when we start to see "anomalies" repeatedly (like ones bob described above), that's the message. We suddenly concede many goals = AI found a hole in our defense; we are unable to score as many as before = AI covered a hole in its defense we succesfully used before, etc. Once we start tweak the sliders, we sometimes fix the problem right away and everything is fine till AI finds another hole. It's just a thought, but it makes sense to me.

retired_rayrhi

It makes sense, Kol, but we are still left shooting in the dark as to how we should respond to the AI exposing our flaws. It would be absolutely mind-numbing to have to watch every match in full mode whilst playing with another person (I only really play with my brother now because single player mode is quite simply boring me), and since this is really the only way to see what's really happening in-match, the game becomes instantly inaccessible. Even then, it's not that obvious as to what is going right or wrong because the match-engine is not the best representation of your tactics. Watching in full-match mode does not cut out the silly mistakes that only human teams make, nor does it stop the 1 shot 1 goal syndrome. You make it sound like a game of roulette, and often I feel that's what FM is. Clearly, the AI can expose you at will with any team, and if this is communicated to us through ridiculous goals and through 1 shot 1 goal syndrome, then something needs to be done. I agree that it makes sense what you are saying, but this seems awfully scripted to me, when events should be carried out in real-time.

In computer language, what you are saying is:

If human player's sliders x, y, z = a
then give AI a higher goals v shots ratio, or increase the risk of defensive errors or unlikely goals.

Surely this 'punishment' or in-match scripting as you clearly are labeling it is tantamount to cheating dare I say?

retired_mgavlick

I can understand your frustration, bob. The thing is that this weird 'form switch' can be managed by tactical changes. Logical ones. Simply, if you are doing well (with an average side) it is because you are doing a lot of things well to keep moral high and employing a tight, difficult to break down tactic. Once you have reached a plateau of achievement, teams will play a similar tactic against you and player level becomes more important. Therefore, you must 'open up' your tactic, be more expansive, to try and break down the opposition.

If both sides play a similar tactical system he one with the better players wins. If the team with the worse players can hold out the better team for most of the match they are more than capable of winning on the counter as frustration grows. Design a system to stop that happening and you will not see these massive shifts in form.