Cleon

There not so powerful at all, infact its completely useless 90% of the time if you counter it. The only time sits overpowered is if you don't adapt to suit how they are playing now.

If they switch to the attacking 424 just sit back and hit them on the counter attack. It really is that simple.

If they are protecting a lead and go defensive, just go slightly more attacking.

No change in shape or anything, all you got to do is adjust the mentality.

GrimaH

I think I get what wwfan says:

If you have an otherwise flawless tactic that is successfully exposed AND taken advantage of by a weak team with weak players ONCE that don't have the skills/stats to be able to take the chance successfully 9 out of 10 times in the first place, ITS YOUR TACTICS.

If your tactic successfully penetrates the defending team countless times the nth way, yet your players who have stats custom-made (well, not literally) for the occasion somehow just keep missing, ITS YOUR TACTICS, because you should have made them find (n+1) ways.

And if this happens loads of times, about half the time you face weak teams, ITS YOUR TACTICS, because they're not Mourinho-style perfect, literally.


They should include a full six-month football tactics course with the game. Seriously.
Which market are you guys aiming for with this kind of product? Making tactics so fantastically hard to understand AND realistic, with comparatively head-slap quality manager-to-player interaction and training, which IRL is equally important as tactics.

arteta is god

There not so powerful at all, infact its completely useless 90% of the time if you counter it. The only time sits overpowered is if you don't adapt to suit how they are playing now.

Can't you see that this is where the game is at fault? If I agree that the AI needs countering so often, and I can, then all I am admitting is how powerful the AI is regardless of its team and its ability.

I have sceenshots of a game played last night in which I was hammering Derby (I'm opening a discussion soon so I'll post it) 3-0 at home in the first half. In the 75th minute they switched to a 2-3-5 with McEveley playing up front. Sure enough, he scored in the 76th and then someones else did in the 80th. I ended up winning the game 3-2, but it was a very dodgy ending.

Now, if a team is playing a 2-3-5, surely there is no need to counter it since that tactic/formation is already instantly flawed. But no, after the AI switched, I lost a steady foothold in the game and I was very lucky to come away with a win. Now, if we really need to counter so drastically, then the game is instantly poor in my opinion. I agree Cleon, the game should not be compared to real life, BUT... the game is supposed to represent it, and at the moment it's very clear that SI have taken the cheap and easy road. Instead of devising some kind of advanced programming technique to counter you, they have simply come up with a simple code that enables ANY team to dominate at will regardless of manager/team/ability/morale. It IS a game, and maybe there is a way to counter the AI's counter, but it isn't realistic to do so — especially at home!!! A good home team 3-0 up against poor opposition will usually always have its way.

There are times when it feels impossible to buy a goal even against extremely weak opposition and no matter what you do it is inevitable that you are not going to score. Yet against this lethal and clinical AI, they can pick your water-tight defence apart at will and make a mockery of you. Try it — I challenge anyone to come back from 3-0 down in the 75th minute against ANY team. You can't do it. You don't have the tools, and not only that, you don't have the AI's 'over-compensation' boost.

Dayle Wood

Arteta - I just started a new season, I have won 6 in a row and have conceded only one goal in those 6 matches. This run includes a 1-0 win against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

So with respect I disagree that the computer is trying to thwart me.

This is how I do it:

The Ai (in england at least) play basically 4 tactics. 442flat, 442 short farrow, 442 long farrow and of course the dreaded 424.

I simply made tactics (based in no small part on theories by wwfan) that were answers to each way that the AI was playing.

I set it up thus:

AI 442flat - This tells me the AI is sitting back and playing a defensive style. If I played my usual attacking style he would be able to frustrate me and perhaps earn a 0-0 draw or beat me 1-0.
The answer then is for me to play a more patient attacking game, wider to pull his players apart and to create more gaps and chances.

In short I have adopted these strategies by wwfan:

Control

Attacking mentality
Ultra-wide width
Medium defensive line
Hard tackling
Often closing down
Loose marking
Slow tempo
Low Time Wasting
All players except DCs/MCd make forward runs often
Three/Four Free Roles
All players play Often Through Balls
Offside Trap
Attackers/Wingers Hold Up Ball
Wingers High Creative Freedom/MCa/FCs Normal
Long Farrows on Wingers

442 short farrows - this is a tactic the AI uses sometimes playing away in a conservative manner. It is attacking you but not all out. The answer is to attack since you are likely at home and since they are parking a bus in front of goal because they are attacking to you will create chances.

Again, I adopted these strategies suggested by wwfan:

Attack

Attacking mentality
Wide width
High defensive line
Hard tackling
Often closing down
Loose marking
High tempo
Low Time Wasting
All players except DCs/MCd make forward runs often
Three/Four Free Roles
All players play Often Through Balls
Offside Trap
Attackers/Wingers Hold Up Ball
Wingers High Creative Freedom/MCa/FCs Normal
Long Farrows on Wingers

442long farrowsThis is an AI home tactic and to beat it I use either a counter attacking style which requires patience or a possession style if i'm better.

Again wwfan's suggestions which form the basis of these tactics:

Counter

Defensive/Normal mentality
Medium/Narrow width
Medium/Deep defensive line
Easy tackling
Rarely closing down
Tight marking
Slow tempo
Medium Time Wasting
Wide Players and Forwards Make Forward Runs
One/Two Free Roles
MCs play Through Balls
Low Creative Freedom
Short Farrows on Wingers


Possession

Normal/Attacking mentality
Medium width
Medium defensive line
Normal/Heavy tackling
Medium closing down
Loose/Tight marking
Medium tempo
Medium Time Wasting
All players except DCs and MCd make mixed/often forward runs
Two Free Roles
All players play Mixed Through Balls
Low/Normal Creative Freedom
Short Farrows on Wingers

Lastly there is the 424 which the AI uses to try and steal a draw when you are winning by one goal. Bascially set up a defensive tactic for this and shut up shop. quite often you will score against the AI since all his traffic is headed your way and you can score on the break and kill the game off.

Defend

Defensive mentality
Narrow width
Deep defensive line
Easy tackling
Rarely closing down
Tight marking
Slow tempo
Heavy Time Wasting
Minimal Forward Runs
No Free Roles
Few Through Balls
Low Creative Freedom
No Farrows on Wingers

As well as these instructions I sarrow my strikers and send the wingers on runs which creates a 4 on 2 situation with the AI.

The only other tactic I have in my arsenal is my own 424 which I duly use against the AI if I am chasing a game. Haven't needed it yet this season but in my previous game it worked about 60-70% of the time which is pretty good.

wwfan

To summarise Dayle's point (I assume you have re-evaluated my tactics since your first post?)

Defensive Tactics: Tight, narrow, deep, easy tackling, no TTBs, few FWrs, defensive players HUB, little CF

Attacking Tactics: Loose, wide, heavy tackling, lots of TTB, more FWRs (except for SCs it seems), attacking players HUB, lots of CF

That seems to summarise the logic of the match engine in as few words as I can manage. To apply, if you go three-nil up, choose a more defensive option to see out the game comfortably.

Dayle Wood

yeah. used the wrong tactic - my fault for that, plus I think with your tactics (and no offence to your tactics) I need to adapt them to my side more, which is true of any tactic I think.

kolobok

You are right, sometimes it feels impossible, but it does not mean it is. AI changes to very crazy tactic and you expect you may seat and do nothing in response? Sometimes it works... But AI changes to this crazy tactic for reason, namely AI believes that it may work against your current tactic. They almost proved it worked.

Most likely you cannot come back from 3-0 down in the 75th minute. The reason is AI will switch to ultra-defensive setup no matter what you do, so you won't have many chances to break them. It has nothing to do with AI ability to come back at you if you don't make changes in response to theirs. And really, if you are 3-0 down by the 75th, something is already wrong.

Btw, I almost always play counter attack and for quite a few seasons I have not seen AI's 4-2-4 or something of this type, simply because AI knows that it is more likely that I will score on break than they turn game around. Moreover, I have allowed late winning goals / equalizers only when played aginst stronger / equal teams, which seems quite reasonable to me.