retired_DonnyLFC

According to your last post you said you were tempted to change to 'Yes' but were actually a 'maybe'. Are you now saying yes it does definitely try and cheat you? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, didn't realise that, but yeah I am definetly a yes because I have had another couple of of nights in the same vain.

I'm officially FM baron

retired_rayrhi

My thoughts exactly, silly monkey. I feel, and I know many others do too, that in order to combat 'super-tactics', SI have implemented some sort of 'over-compensation' tool in which any team can combat your tactic regardless of any other factors. Unfortunately, the way it's communicated via the match-engine (anomalies, mistakes, you know the drill) is pish poor, and it leaves you feeling extremely cheated. The game feels more like a game of chess in which you must counter the counter in case you get countered. It's not realistic at all. It's just not football anymore...

retired_elpata

Cleon, your bang on here with this statement and i cannot come up with a reasonable answer?, i can only say that i love the idea of being a Football Manager and i have followed this game from the outset.

Not clever i know, but there is still a tiny part of me that believes one day SI will get it right and it will have been worth sticking with it?.

I'd still bet my mortgage that FM07 has at least one cheat installed!. </BLOCKQUOTE>

See I respect that because you admit that its not logical to keep playing a game that cheats. But you keep it installed in the hope you find new hope and renewed confidence. And because you are a FM fan. I don't agree with some of the things you think happens, but I can respect them and I can do my upmost to try and show you a different reasoning why things happen.

And I respect you more because you showed me evidence earlier on and we sorta tried to work together to get around some of the issues you was suffering. And for me thats what this forum is about, sharing and embracing

retired_rayrhi

Alright lads, this is getting a bit gay now. Can we stick to football, please? There are other forums for this type of thing.

retired_cindymerc

LOL!!! Arteta is a joker!

retired_slayerbing

Firstly, Do you any of you SERIOUSLY believe that SIGames have deliberatly programmed the game to cheat? Because IF the game does cheat then it could only be because Sigames have made it do so.

People that think the game cheats have merely not grasped the tactical concepts involved and are blaming some conspirousy rather than be honest and admit their own inadequecies.

retired_rayrhi

I have explained my notion of 'cheating' above. It's not cheating as such, but clearly SI have re-vamped this version to eliminate super-tactics and it's not the better in my opinion. Of course SI have deliberately programmed it the way have and clearly it's upset the balance of the game. You only have to tally up the number of disgruntled fans to see that this is true. You say that the 'doubters' have not grasped the tactical concepts? That's odd since nobody has. It's not possible to grasp the tactical concepts because there are none that hold any truth. It's all theory. Why do you think this thread is still so popular?

Unfortunately, this game is now a game of chance. You either succeed or you don't and you don't know why either way. You may have read already — my brother just won the league and FA Cup with Everton without watching ANY highlights in his second season (I aim to open a thread for us to analyse to see if WE can discover why, but it'll have to wait until I go to his house. Will anyone be interested?). He was about to quit after the first season since he feels the game is too random. Sure enough, his point was proved correct in our second season after his success. Does he know how or why he won the league and cup? Of course he doesn't. Did he make the effort to watch his matches to 'discover' his tactical flaws/strengths? No. He feels that there is no need since the match engine proves nothing. And there's me analysing every little detail and slider setting while he's beating Man Utd 5-1 at home on commentary only. We are both as baffled as each other.

retired_slayerbing

arteta - super tactics are gone from the game that is true. But that is a GOOD thing. Super tactics for the most part exposed weaknesses in the games programming which has subsequently being fixed through patches and the natural evolution of the game.

The game without those super tactics is much harder, you'll get no argument from me there, but it is also much better and in my view more realistic.

The tactical concepts I spoke of are assumptions that ring true both within the game and also in the real game of football.

I believe that setting up a tactic is very difficult and the reason so many people struggle with the game is that they don't set their tactic up properly, with many instructions counteracting each other.

This is the reason the AI beats you because unlike us the AI knows what it is doing and does not need to learn how to play the game by reading lots of articles.

That gives the AI the advantage in the early stages but if you are analytical and spend some time studying the game it is more than possible to overcome the difficulty factor.

For example: In the premiership there are 4 main tactics used by the AI. If you concentrate on how to combat those tactics (442flat. 442short farrow, 442long farrow and 424) the you have already set down a good foundation for how to beat the game.

retired_kkdanno

The AI is just too efficient at what it does. SI have indeed programmed an awesome AI but it has taken all realism from the game in my eyes.

Sure. I can expect the opposition to try and counter me. but the way they do it is on a level of ridiculousness never before seen. Because lets face it, if you face a team managed by Fergie or Wenger then they are obviously going to be better at the counter tactics than say... Micky Adams and Lawrie Sanchez, no? But in the game this is not the case is it? the raw truth of it is the AI is so good that ANY manager in charge of ANY team can pull out an awesome 4-2-4 or 5-4-1 where the reply to these tactics is still unkown to the player and it is causing mucho disgruntlement amongst the fans.

On a side note there are also WAYYYYYY too many outside influences within the game that can sway the way a match goes. If you're 3-0 up at half time no matter what you say the players should know what to do and not be total morons which is the case in at least 75% of the time.

retired_rayrhi

I know my tactic is set up properly since it's worked and worked and worked some more across many teams and divisions. It doesn't matter how good your tactic is in certain situations. Always the reply is tactics tactics tactics. People need to forget this notion. Like bluenose says, the AI is lethal, merciless and too many outside variables affect the outcome — variables that are NOT communicated in game thus leaving us searching for answers that are usually attributed to tacical ineptness. Switching to a 4-2-4 after 29 minutes, scoring 2, equalising and then reverting back to a basic 4-4-2 is proof in my mind just how effective and 'cheap' the 4-2-4 is. You say one should counter this, I say it's not football so I wont even try. The fact that most people claim that the AI actually needs countering often highlights to me just how much of an advantage the AI has. Not only this, but any AI team can counter the human effectively regardless of ability. Tell me you haven't seen this. You need only see the number of screenshots Hammer and I have posted — all examples of effective AI countering. You will say it's our tactical flaws, I will say once again, it's not real and it's not football — it's the overly effective AI in action. The elimination of super-tactics is a good thing I agree, but I'll say it again, SI have created an imbalance in the game where the AI calls ALL the shots regardless of the team you are playing. You say that one needs to analyse the match engine to improve your set-up. I say this is nonsense. You can watch the game on commentary only and win the league. The match-engine is simply not as complex as people think. In fact, I feel it's a poor poor representation of events. Either that, or it's the slider system that's flawed because the players are not doing what you ask on the screen. I have hundreds of screenshots if you need proof, but I can guarantee you've already seen this with your own eyes. The bottom line is this: It's very easy to selfishly claim that there is nothing wrong with the game. Maybe you don't see any problem with it and that's okay. From purely a marketing point of view, SI should be VERY concerned that there is a widening gulf between those who think the game is good and those that think it is poor/flawed. Regardless of your own personal views on the game, I would argue that there is just as many disgruntled fans as there are who feel the game is great. You can not turn a blind eye to this. There's a breakdown in the game somewhere and that's the only truth. I've played this game for as long, if not more than anyone on these forums and I've ALWAYS had success. With this game though, it's just far too inconsistent, random, nonsensical, flawed,, and merciless for me to fully enjoy it. This is the worst version in years. It's good, but it's not fun anymore.