retired_rayrhi

Alright, thread cleared, fuk it. I watch about 6 to 7 games on full match usually to ensure my closing down and mentality settings are correct. After this I play on extended and I will change my formation/tactic accordingly if I notice that I am being dominated/need to defend a lead. As for this 4-4-2 I have been using, I have developed it with many teams over many months in many leagues. It's been successful with Derby, Sunderland, Tranmere, Everton, Scunthorpe, Reading, Blackburn, QPR, and Bolton, as it was in my first season with Newcastle. Simply put, I know it works. As for the silly mistakes, they occurred much less frequently in my first season (I didn't notice at least), but in my second season, the 'silly' goals are flying in. In relation to your question, it's not possible to foresee that Given is going to lump the ball to the midfield where it's won and then a goal occurs, or that your defender is going to gift the opposing striker the ball. My theory is that these 'silly' goals are the AI's way of communicating that there is something wrong either with your formation/tactics (which is not the case here since I know that it works), or that other variables are having a detrimental effect on your team. It's not possible to cut out mistakes from your keeper since he ignores you anyway; and with regards to your defenders, unless you have them set to long ball and with a quick tempo I don't see how you can stop them making mistakes. And regardless, it's simply not football to set up a tactic that stops your players 'making mistakes.' I should not have to change my style in order to accommodate for schoolyard errors.

retired_elpata

The team talk report is the best indication for this. It will tell you how well your squad is gelling. If it says 'the players have developed a good understanding' and the new players are in the squad, then it won't effect you much. After you played your first league game with the new players in the side, get a report and see what it says.

If you view the game and not just highlights, you might notice a change. However if your a club with decent players and high expectaions then you should be able to inforce your own style upon teams and you dictate to them exactly how you want to play.

On one of my saved games I won almost everything possible in a season. But I did it playing defensive even though I was clear favourites for all compettions. I stuck to my guns and after a while, normally 15 mins or so, the opposition used to change their style and then id rip em apart.

Still sign em just don't go mad and do like 8+ changes in 1 go. Also remember to check a players adapatablity and what the scout report says about them settling in.

Good points Dayle.

Also what in game tweaking do you do? As this is the most important things for when a game is going wrong.

retired_elpata

Thats a nice amount to watch. Are these the first 6 or 7 games? Also, do you ever notice other things thats wrong while your looking at your closing down and mentality?

Do you often change the shape? As doing this often can have a negative effect. Its reccomened you try and stick to the same shape just alter the instructions. If not a player gets confused and never really settles into a system. If you don't do this them I'm talking bollox

Is there a pattern that occurs with these silly goals? Like the same players etc?

How often in a game does this happen? And if you see it happen once, what do you do to try and ensure it doesn't again? Or is this the bit thats tricky for you?

I sort of agree with you here its happened to me. Its normally a case of a few of my settings have needed changed, or its a way or letting me know some of my players just aren't good. By them not been good enough I mean mental stats wise. Players with low mental stats make way more mistakes than other players.

I know you say your tactic works and I believe you. However because its worked on various other games doesn't mean it will work the same way this time, especially when using a different club. It might be a case that you need to watch a few more games at different intervals and notice if you see something which you didn't on a previous game.

You have to remember clubs have hidden stats for what formations they prefer, the closing down, attacing, freeroles etc. All of this is in the editor, so if you wanted to know a clubs prefered closing down and formation all you'd do is load the editor and look.

So for example you are playing a 442 but the clubs preffered formation is a 352 then it will take time to adjust yet again.

Its hard but is possible. Employing a DMC helps, especially if hes set to defensive with no forward runs at all. Once the keeper kicks the ball long and it goes straight to the oppisition he should be well enough placed to stop any danger. However for this to work properly you also need your wingers and AMC(if you use one) to close down often to put pressure on the players as soon as they get the ball.

If its a flat 442 you use, then the same principles still apply as one of the CM's will be less attacking than the other.

But yes the goal kicks are annoying and I think they will be addressed for FM08 I'm sure of that infact.

Thats true, but you need to remember that mistakes do happen too. And players with low morale will be more prone to making these mistakes, or players who are low in pressure.

For my defenders I prefer a direct passing for them, regardless of what shape I am. I find it the best combo for FM07 and I set up nice attacks from the back like this.

retired_elpata

Also Arteta, the tactic that you are reffering too where these mistakes happen, can you give me a few details about it. That way I can try and build a picture and its easier to try and explain things too. Plus it saves me asking questions about a certain position blah blah.

Ta

retired_rayrhi

It's funny you mention the hidden team attributes in the editor. Only the other day I was discussing them with my brother. He put forth to me the idea that you may have to match your tactical implementation to these attributes. In season 1 with Everton he finished a rather poor 13th in the league. This season he reverted to a 4-5-1 and he's top of the league after 15 games after recently demolishing Man Utd 5-1. I wonder if this change had anything to do with it? How important do you think it is that you match these?

JeffRogers

things like this shouldnt be in the game imo!

if a team has got a favourite formation or CD setting, then surely that is down to the previous managers using said setting and therefore you should be able to have you own style and be successful with it!

its absolutely rediculous this has an effect on how successful you are/are likely to be!

supposing you've made the perfect tactic, yet you never see it come to fruition just because theres a setting telling the game that 4-5-1 is best for this team and the 4-4-2 you have created is therefore null! or at least nowhere near as likely to succeed!

is this why people are having success/not having success? should we all just go straight to editor from now on before choosing a team then write the settings down before playing as it'd save a lot of heartache?

just another 'flaw' to me to add to the list of what stops you from winning! to go along with 'bad teamtalk', 'wrong weather', 'wrong selection', 'wrong tactic', 'wrong settings'!...
which is it this time?

sorry for the rant but im sick of not knowing why things are happening only to find out it might not be me after all, but just them 'hidden settings' in the game!

retired_kellyk

Hidden attributes are a large part of the game, which is why I'm a huge critic of the way its been run now. All attributes should be hidden in the game. A scout should only reveal some attributes, he needs to make more visits to a player before they are revealed.

Currently such a slew of attributes are revealed that people make the natural assumption that they have the right player for the right position. Sometimes that's not the case. You may think that you have a really good playmaker upfront. But his hidden attribute for playmaking shows 1.

Attributes play a huge part in this game. I've always adapted my players to a tactic. Hunted long and hard for players that seem alike, so that my tactic stays stable.

You can match hidden attributes to a tactic for the easy way out. Many do, I hate doing that cause it takes away the tension I always feel on whether a player is suited to that position.

Your brother's change reflects how important ALL attributes are to the game. The argument on whether attributes should stay hidden or not will go on ad infinitum because both sides have strong cases.

A team does not naturally play well in a formation, its the attributes that govern how well a team plays. Its up to the manager to match attributes to tactics. That's why I always design tactics first with a view to the kind of players to get.

retired_hope

Every non-player has tactical attributes, this is effectively the style the non-player will use as the manager of a club.

I believe the attributes for a team are used by the game to identify the ideal manager a club would want to bring in. There reputation is another factor.

My point is, this is how I thought it works and you have a different take on it, but neither of use know for sure.

Don't get upset about assumptions that may be wrong.

retired_Cat1123

Good to see the thread back on track!. :thup:

Now,about this second season syndrome.

When i try out a new tactic(usually with West Ham), i play a couple of seasons without making any changes to "the squad", "training", "coaches" etc, i just leave them all as they stand at the beginning of a new game.

All i implement is whatever tactic i am trying out, this is to minimise the chance of me bringing in the wrong kind of players, waiting for them to gel etc etc.

I always find that for the first half of the season my original squad are finding it hard to gel, yet the tactic will shine through if it is good enough and i can normally finish the 1st season between 4th and 8th.

By the time the 2nd season rolls around, my players have gelled and i'm being told that they'd "die for each other".

Now, my predicted finish will be the same or very close to my 1st season prediction(give or take one or two places), so there is little fear of the re-ranking(if it exists enough to make a big difference) changing the way teams play against me? and i can see that myself, noting that teams start with the exact same formation/settings as season 1.

So then i would have to ask, why is it that these cracks then appear, with players suddenly making MORE stupid errors under no pressure, being much more prone to "super keepers" or "the one shot syndrome" etc etc, when all the evidence would suggest that this should happen less, now that the team has gelled wonderfully well and that the tactics, although maybe far from perfect(what is perfect anyway?) are showing us as the dominant force against most/all of our opposition?.

If we were playing poorly, i could at least try to look for what's gone wrong and do something about it, but the evidence suggests that we are playing better than ever, but for whatever reason, we are far more susceptible to the above scenarios?.

retired_elpata

All hidden stats are quite important. As for the tactic hidden stats I'm sure they play some role but not a too prominent one I would imagine.

You brothers sudden success could be a number of things. Because he finished so poorly in the first season, this year he will be the underdog in most games meaning less pressure on the team as the expecations will have changed.

Another thing I thought of, what rep do you start with when you start as a manager? Do you leave it set to random or do you change it to former player etc?


I actually agree, only a club should have a preffered formation nothing else.

It would still be successful it wouldn't hinder it that badly. It might just take a few games longer to get used to the system thats all. Which is perfectly fine and makes sense.

Everything you mentioned above apart from the flaw, are what stops teams winning in real life so for me its very realistic in that aspect. For example you cannot expect a team who play a short slow tempo game to do well on a wet pitch.

I actually agree here as well. It would be nice if the scout gave you a lot more detailed reports on the players characteristics.


I'm not sure I think thats what they are for and I'll explain why.

What would the point in that be? That would mean a club always picks the same type of manager. But if you go a few years into the game you can see in some cases this isn't the case. Clubs hire all types of managers from what I can see.