retired_rayrhi

Through a "Simple Twist of Fate" (Bob Dylan), it has come to the attention of both Moggy and I that we are both admirers of this formation:



With the base formation/tactic that I have saved in my archives, I managed to take Derby County to the Premiership in one season, and to the Champions League in three. I feel that it is quite solid as is, particularly at home, but it could certainly be improved and adapted for playing away from home since by nature, it is an attacking system. On top of this, we feel that most tests on these forums have been carried out in England, so we are both booking a cheap flight on EasyJet and making the short journey to Spain.

What are we going to do?
Before we even decide on which teams to be, I am going to post my current base settings for us to pick them apart (or applaud them) logically with a footballing mindset, in the hope that we/us can collaborate and in turn improve the effectiveness of the set-up. After we have come to a common agreement, the team selection process will begin — please let me be Sevilla

It would be fantastic if we could get a number of folks to stick with the same settings throughout using many differing teams from different countries to test the tactic.

What is the point?
a. To test the consistency of the tactic
b. To test the consistency of the game
c. What's more fun than a widespread group collaboration?
d. To use all of our footballing minds/resources to narrow the tactic down to a point of great success and effectiveness
e. To test the random factor of varying game worlds. With this in mind, we should all select teams of similar quality.

Teams
Me: Sevilla?
Moggy: Sevilla? (hopefully not )
The rest of the rabble: Preferably teams outside of Spain. Roma? Porto? Tottenham?

Experience
Ex-international manager

Team-talks
I actually have a good understanding of them now, but I could care less if we have our assistants handle them. Perhaps in the name of consistency, we should come up with a set of responses for varying situations.

Version
7.0.2, but don't worry if you have updated the database as I have, since the program is still the same. The original match-engine was even more flawed than 7.0.2.

Feel free to comment on any other factors that we must take into consideration. Once we come to an agreement here in how we should start the game, I will begin to post my formation/tactical settings for public scrutiny. In the meantime, I have an important meeting binder to complete for the CEO by 5:00pm this evening. Currently, it's second on my list to this project, but for the sake of my occupation and livelihood, I must get back to it. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and I look forward to starting this. I don't ever remember a post with group collaboration as the leading focus. I am quite excited about it. I hope we can all contribute and create a wonderfully implemented 4-3-3.

retired_rayrhi

My Philosphy

This 4-3-3/4-5-1 (whatever the damn thing is!) is an attacking formation by nature. As a result, the weakness of it lies down the wings. As far as I am concerned, this is irrelevant. I created this tactic to dominate the middle of the park, where games are won, and to allow the front 3 creative license to tally up the goals and assists.

As attacking as the formation seems, it is actually rather cautious due to the way I have it set up. As Cleon rightly pointed out (and I think some people may not understand this clearly), the forward runs slider does NOT apply to the man with the ball. From my observations, a player on forward runs will get forward and aim to get in to the box when he is not in possession of the ball. You may be surprised to hear that my back 4 and midfield 3 are ideally set to forward runs rarely—the reasons being:

a. It is dangerous to commit full-backs forward since I am already weak down the wings
b. I want my midfield 3 to be close together in order to dominate possession
c. I want my midfield 3 to be close together to close down the middle and give the opposition minimal time on the ball

The midfield is the engine room in this formation, and your players should reflect this. I don't want to see any fancy flicks or cockiness in the middle. Players such as Alan Smith, Poulsen, Gerrard, Flamini, Reo-Coker, Gravesen, Essien, and Boateng are ideal players for the role, and passing ability is very very welcome. Players such as Riquelme, Kaka, Koumas, and Hleb are not.

However, on the wings, 2 Cristiano Ronaldo's would be ideal. The wingers are where the goals are going to come from, so it is important to have very creative, fast wide men whom can take on the full backs and deliver. Ideally, these guys should be given lots of creative freedom and free roles. These guys are NOT expected to defend, hence the importance of the midfield engine room. The striker in this formation should be strong, good in the air, technically good, and be a good finisher. This guy can be given high creative freedom too since his responsibility is simply to score. Berbatov, Kanoute, Steve Howard, Zigic, Koller, Crouch, and Big Dunc are some examples.

retired_rayrhi

Moggy:

I realise that you opened your own thread. Sorry, mate. Since this is OUR baby, please let me know if there is anything on here you don't agree with. This is just my way of carrying out the experiment. I am more than open to suggestions.

retired_elpata

I closed the other thread as I thought it was better you and Moggy kept the discussion in just 1 thread, I didn't do it out of spite. I thought id just make that clear But if you did want seperate threads I could reopen it just let me know

I love the 433 because you can change it to 451 when you are not in possession of the ball. Its just very versatile in both defence and attack.

If you have players who can play on both wings I like the idea of getting them to switch position, is this something you've tried yourself?

retired_kellyg198

think you forgot to add yakubu to the striker role examples

im up for helping with this project, will be using the weegie update though.

also on a tactical note, will the 3mcs all have the same settings? i reckon it would be good for balance to have the two outer MCs as slightly more defensive to cover the wings and break up counter atacks and have the central MC either slightly advanced or a pirlo type player.

retired_rayrhi

I haven't mate, no. But I reckon that you have some great input you can share with us such as what you just mentioned. I look forward to hearing your thoughts once I post my tactical set-up. The idea is to come to a single agreement before I/we even pick a team. This way, hopefully, there will be little need for experimentation and it will be a good test of our footballing minds. On top of that, it's a nice little social gathering don't you think. Hopefully this thread can also cement some slightly broken relationships so we can all look toward 08 on each other's side

retired_rayrhi

How dare I forget Yak. EVERYONE SIGN YAKUBU, he's the only player that allows this tactic to work!

I heard through the grapevine that we are going after Riquelme. It's just a rumour though, and I am sure, a pipe-dream.

Bluenose, these are all good points you make, good sir. Please mention this again after I post my settings. I aim to do so as soon as I can. I hate having a job. It gets in the way of FM.

retired_elpata

I haven't mate, no. But I reckon that you have some great input you can share with us such as what you just mentioned. I look forward to hearing your thoughts once I post my tactical set-up. The idea is to come to a single agreement before I/we even pick a team. This way, hopefully, there will be little need for experimentation and it will be a good test of our footballing minds. On top of that, it's a nice little social gathering don't you think. Hopefully this thread can also cement some slightly broken relationships so we can all look toward 08 on each other's side </BLOCKQUOTE>

The past is the past mate and I don't hold grudges

I'm interested to see how you set up the 3 MC's. I tend to have my central one set up like a DMC with hard tackling. I also like to have a playmaker as the DMC, this is higly effective for a 433.

retired_e_fores

Firstly I didn't realise you had created a thread. Yours is better.

Secondly I thought we were intentionally going to use the same team but with hindsight using different ones would acheive more and thus I will use Fiorentina I think if that is OK, despite the transfer budget. Better transfer budget than Sevilla anyway...

Team talks could be one tricky issue, however I think if neither of us get into serious trouble these should just be a consistant motivator to keep the players alert. If there is a slump in form then we loose some consistancy, but we may just have to allow for that.

I agree with all of this though I think it would be dangerously one dimensional to choose a striker whose strength is solely in the air. Because this formation can have assists from the wings and centre AND the striker is alone, I think one with a decent touch and some pace would be good, as well as being half decent in the air. Pazzini and Kanoute almost seem perfect for the role. Iaquinta perhaps more so. Klose would certainly be the very best option.

I know in the traditional 4-3-3 approach fullbacks were very attacking. I think lots of forward runs on the FB's may work well in attack and defense (all be it in a risky sort of way). What I mean is that it gives more passing options to the midfield and could be a link from the midfield to the wingers. When possession is lost (assuming the opp play a not too attacking 442) the winger and full back would be closer together, cutting down the space on the flanks (though of course there would be more space behind the full back).

retired_rayrhi

From what I remember, I had two nutters on the outside of the three, and David Jones (tremendous midfielder) set as the playmaker in the middle. All three were set to high closing down. Unfortunately, I don't have access to that game since I'm at work, but I'll get to it tonight and over the weekend if real life doesn't kick in.

Remember lads, feel free to criticise (constructively, I'm very sensitive) my set up once it's posted. I'm all for change. But the rule is this: we can not advance to the next slider setting until we all agree on the set up so remember to back up your reasoning with solid footballing theory. At the moment it's just moggy, cleon and I