retired_elpata

Its clear if you look through all the forums on SI, that many people do have some sort of success playing FM. I also find that the majority of people who have success never ever come in the tactics forum or take part in any discussions. Now I've spoke to a few of these people over recent times and they all share some some of similarity and that is they use there own ideas.

Now its true that 90% of the users of the tactics forum are here for help and guidance. You don't find many users who only post to give help or advice, the likes of wwfan etc are rare. People like wwfan make up the other 10% for me and they are the people who generate discussions, advice and rarely seek help themselves.

This brings me on nicely to my next point. The reasons why I think some people have success and some don't is not because we suck at the game, but because we are always trying to implement other peoples ideas into our games. This alone can cause quite a bit of confusion at times and over complicate things.

I'm not saying we shouldn't embrace other peoples ideas, but you have to remember there are many ways to play the game and just because something is working for someone else doesn't automatically mean it will for you. What people tend to do is wander from thread to thread and try everything listed.

When what we should be doing (imo atleast) is maybe trying these ideas along with our own and not trying to immiate someone elses game plan. You only have to look at wwfan, Rashidi and myself to see how differently all three of us play from each other. Yet we all roughly get the same results, yet our approaches are all different.

Taking elements of peoples game play and adapting them into yours is a good idea. But trying to copy every single detail they do will only add confusion as your levels of understanding of the game and how it works might be completly different.

I don't really know why I'm posting this

I guess the bottom line is, are the people who are struggling at the game approaching it wrong by trying to adapt to someone elses approach? I'm not saying everyone who is struggling is doing that but it seems to be a very high percentage who are these days.

Do you think this causes confusion?

Philco

Personaly I think it's important to have your own "style". I've wasted many an hour with FM and have developed a style of my own, which regards to what kind of players I want, what formations I swear to and what tactics I use. Copying someone else never guarantees success, as people aproach the game differently and have different type of players and importantly different favorites in the team. For instance, I am, although a ManUtd fan, a huge admirer of Pennant. Which made me play him a lot when I became Liverpool manager (the other clubs including ManUtd rejected me =() which makes me tactics change according to his form, and his style of play. Others might really like Crouch, for him to succeed you need a different aproach something like a game with more long balls and crosses. So yeah, it's important to adapt tactics to players and everyone has a favorite in a team. In addition several teams have their own "prefered" formation. 4-4-2 with Milan for instance doesn't pay off as well as it does for ManUtd as Milan prefer another formation. When people follow the guides here, they forget to adjust the tactics according to their own team and players. Just one player can change the entire complexity of the formation, tactic and game plan, and it's important to remember to buy players for the squad, and not just buy players cause they have a reputation. In the words of many great managers: "There's a lot of great players out there, but no player can ever be bigger than the club. Players come and go, but the clubs still stand firm"

I used to look at some guides here when I was totally fresh to the game and could never quite get the same results as the guide-posters. Following guides have helped my understandment greatly, but to think following the guides will fix all your problems... not at all. Play your own game and in the end you'll get the feel of the game and be able to adjust tactics to your team and your players.

So yeah... personalization is key. I have mostly forgotten everything I wrote.. but I hope it made sense?

retired_elpata

Aye it makes sense you make some excellent points about favourite players too.

Another thing I have noticed over the last 10 years or so is people make a tactic and if it doesn;t work start a new game and use very simliar settings to what didn't work before. Now if a tactic was completley useless before it won't suddenly become a world beater just because you changed teams.

So if you use some settings and they don't work, then forget about them and try something else. A lot of people I feel are stubbourn with settings and stick by them in the hope that one day they strike lucky and they did actually work

retired_annalexis

I'd be classed as someone who is here looking help. However i dont want to copy peoples tactics and try to win like that.

If i use peoples tactics its on test games to try and work things out.

What i really would like to achieve by reading these forums is an understanding of what everything does, how does slowing the tempo effect the game? Things like this.

I do have my own ideas, but i feel reluctant to implement them because i end up thinking this is based on football knowledge. You dont often think that it will work on a computer generated representation of football. If you get my point.

Also, i wasnt aware until coming on here that a deep defensive line offeres the chance for space for long shots.

I didnt even realise the game got as in depth as that. What im saying is that there is so much in this game that is based on real football concepts. But at the same time you think well they couldnt have made a game that covers every aspect of football.

So i'm really at a stage where i dont know what effects the outcome of a game etc.

retired_elpata

Thats understandable and makes sense. However don't be afraid to experiement and try things that you would think works IRL. The worse that can happen is you loose, but atleats you know what effect it had on your team

retired_nayelita

canabary u made some valid points. some ppl actually watch real fotball alot and try make their tactics around fav players or teams.


but its a game.

some ppl are power gamers and play untill perfection. untill the ai is beeten and all goals are achived in the game.in this game that would be win champions leauge with an small small miniclub that start in the bottom of the leauge system

some ppl play casual.load up and game and play with their fav teams and sign their fav players.when they get bored they play other games or leave computer.


same are between those to. they download tactics read forums and try their best.
we are humans we are different.

i remember when i playd cm the first years in 96-98. omg i cheated like hell. loaded up other teams and made offers on my own players and so on.one time i played an hot seet game with an good friend to me.when he fell assleep i sold daniel fonseca (juve) to him(inter) with max wage. when he woke up he almost killed me.our friendship ended after that.

after 12 years of cm i have grown up and have an more adult way to see at fm.i make my own tactics and play teams not many play (cesena,lazio).

retired_maverick8

I think Cleon has a good point.

I think there are a basic set of do’s and don’ts that become obvious as you play the game, but the most successful players seem to come up with their own ideas.

I always try to think how my tactics would do IRL and base a lot of my theories on that. Every single detail in my tactics and training are based on a sensible logical way that would work IRL, at the moment I have created a tactic for West Ham based on Bolton’s style of play last year (4-3-3 Direct) and I am doing well. This is because all my players have clear none contradictory instructions and a sensible training regime.

I see some peoples formations and it makes me think ‘that would never work IRL’ so I generally dismiss them. I’m a big fan of getting my players in the correct position on the pitch; I think this is vital in FM and IRL.

retired_FaultyFate

Well, I'd be classed as someone who seeks ideas rather than help . I have my own ideas, implement them and see if they work. I have also adapted quite a few ideas from these forums, or sometimes find that ideas I have implemented in my game were well written by somebody else. To me the key point is adaptation. For example, generally I don't like the idea of having a tactic set but rather prefer adjusting one tactic on "as needed" basis. Does it mean wwfan's tactic set and his ideas are useless for me? Not at all! They gave me some ideas what and when to tweak. I don't like the idea of tweaking during a match. But it does not mean Cleon's Sheffield United project is less usefull for me. There I caught some ideas how to anticipate things and I try to change tactic BEFORE a match. I could continue naming other threads but would never finish...

Do I always win? Of course not. Moreover, sometimes I see my implementations fail and I know why, and sometimes I have no clue why something did not work. But I believe I am successful in the game, meaning that 90% of time I see what I expected, even though match outcome may not be favorable.

Another point. The game has random element (so has real football). But if I see the same "anomalies" happen 2-3 times in short period, I know it's my problem. That is, if AI scores last minutes goals every single game, I have a problem. Solution? Sometimes it's as simple as give some key players rest for a couple games, sometimes it's more complicated (changing tactic, etc.). But honestly, after playing this game for a few months I intuitively feel what's wrong. And the intuition is result of picking up ideas, observing things and learning, not just because I am as great as Sir Alex.

retired_mary43

I think some people try to adapt to the opposition rather than forcing the opposition to adapt to you, or a bit of both (ideally, it should be a bit of both). Sort of, say, you are Watford playing against Manchester United. You can drop your defensive line as deep as you want but the deeper you drop it the more pressure you invite onto your defenders, so deep defensive lines can be flawed in this instance. How about hard tackling and a moderate defensive line, but offside trap?

I think some people who are finding it hard should simply drop back to the game's default 4-4-2 and do not mess with the individual instructions' sliders at all - just team instructions. Sometimes, you get better results - which is the result of overcomplication. I'm playing a 4-1-2-3 (flat back 4, DMC, MC, MC, FC, FC, FC), with fast strikers on the wide spots, and with good crossing and pace, and the central striker really only needs good Off the ball and Anticipation, possibly Heading. It's a crude tactic, not using individual instructions sliders too much (high creative freedom for the strikers, but that's it), but simply lobbing through balls all the time and moderate closing down and offside-trap, with high defensive line ends up with ridiculously effective results (beat Reggina 6-0 with absolutely no threat, should've won larger, for example).

Another thing I think some people should do is set piece study. If you have a player who is an excellent free-kick taker and has a high Shooting attribute, you can simply drop time wasting to zero and every single direct free-kick will be taken as soon as the ball is placed down - and more often than not the ball ends up at the back of the net. Same goes for corners - I have a very tall centre-back who has tons of goals by virtue of standing on the near post.

Admittedly, my tactic ends up with me conceding really stupid goals (beat Brighton and Hove 5-3, but they gave me a fright with some absolute horror defending, because my centre-backs and goalkeeper on high closing down ended with two long-range chips) but my tactic is too crude for that. It relies on speed and crossing, and getting people into the box, especially for rebounds (I almost never miss a rebound unless it is at an impossible angle).

retired_elpata

You've all made some excellent points