retired_nico1121

I'm sure if the archives extended backwards in this forum to be able to sufficiently pull up posts just after the release with topics that include the term "debacle" in them going all the way back 7 years. You're really not breaking new ground here.

SI will continue to monitor these forums and take advice on they can improve aspects of the game, but I'm pretty sure you're wasting your time trying to advise them on their production and management policies regarding it's development. They know what works best for them to be able to continue to develop their products, and will continue to follow them or alter them as they see fit, but without the need to consult us.

retired_badmagic9

I only bring it up because of all these people claiming FM08 is "unplayable" out of the box. It's not even close to being unplayable. FPS:FBPro99 ... now that was unplayable.

By comparison, lets say you set up a 4-4-2 tactic, taking time and diligence to get every player's instruction just so. Then, when you get to the pitch, you see a right-footed DC playing ML with striker instructions, your DL playing ST with midfielder instructions, your GK playing MC with defender instructions. And wearing the other team's shirt.

You begin to get the idea ...

retired_qwerty

I only bring it up because of all these people claiming FM08 is "unplayable" out of the box. It's not even close to being unplayable. FPS:FBPro99 ... now that was unplayable.

By comparison, lets say you set up a 4-4-2 tactic, taking time and diligence to get every player's instruction just so. Then, when you get to the pitch, you see a right-footed DC playing ML with striker instructions, your DL playing ST with midfielder instructions, your GK playing MC with defender instructions. And wearing the other team's shirt.

You begin to get the idea ... </BLOCKQUOTE>

FPS:FBPro 99 was released in 1998/99, the game industry has since evolved and the standard of out of box games released by well known publishers such as Sierra has been far better to date. Infact one of the reasons that Sierra became one of the leading publishers is that they do not attempt to defend themselves and 'save face' like SI and SEGA do, they are true to their customers and apologise when needed. Imagine if in 1998/99, instead of apologising to customers and offering a full refund, they responded to customer complaints by pretending that FBPro 99 was "essentially playable" or "the sales figure has backed us up" or "there was a demo..." (which SI staff seem to always use to defend themselves), I am sure Sierra would never have attained the stature it has now in the game publishing industry.

You may be right that FBpro99 was much more unplayable than Fm08, but their poor quality are due to the same thing in my honest opinion. The following quote , from http://au.gamespot.com/news/2452590.html, David Grenewetzki, president of Sierra, made in 1999 FBpro99 suits well in 2007 to Fm08:

"I want to apologize to all our loyal customers for releasing a product before it was ready," said "We knew the potential for this product, but we let the impending end of the football season influence our decision process. We figuratively 'dropped the ball'."

retired_tracypoescott

Shut up you crazy fool.

Bugs happen in FM because there are so many variables,SI fix them, thats the way it is and always has been, bottom line which other game will you be playing 12 months after you bought it, treat it like a fine wine and give it chance to mature.

IIRC they also release a free transfer window data update every season. Can you imagine any other company doing this? EA would put 9.99 on it and call it an expansion pack

retired_badmagic9

I'm shaking my head in amazement.

Sierra didn't apologize initially. They ran us on for months, saying "We're gonna fix it." "It's not so bad." "Wait 'till next year!" And a few other excuses, too. And Sierra wasn't some babe-in-the-woods company then, either. They'd been around for over ten years at that point ... remember Leisure Suit Larry? One? They chopped off a quarter of their business when they shut down Front Page Sports, which had published a wildly popular baseball series, including a game many still consider to be one-of-if-not-the-best-ever, Baseball Pro 98. Sierra had to do what they did to try to salvage what was left of a major hunk of their customer base. And with this customer, they more-or-less failed. I buy on average five to six games a year, and I don't need my left hand to count the number of Sierra products I've purchased since 2000.

And I never did get that T-shirt.

To put FM08 and FPSro99 on anywhere near the same plane is a gross disservice to SI.

Chuck16

Not after that last release i should think...but thats another story

zib

dear buffoon

bugs are not bugs until they turn up after the release. why does that happen...because of rushed release, hence not enough time for testing.. even SI admitted in an earlier thread that they only picked up on te closing down bug when they were already in production.

pebbles

i`l still be buyin it as soon as it comes out! still best game ever!! just need to maybe hold back release date rather than rushin it out for demand! beta patch 2 is pretty good i think, apart from the stuttering

retired_qwerty

I'm shaking my head in amazement.

Sierra didn't apologize initially. They ran us on for months, saying "We're gonna fix it." "It's not so bad." "Wait 'till next year!" And a few other excuses, too. And Sierra wasn't some babe-in-the-woods company then, either. They'd been around for over ten years at that point ... remember Leisure Suit Larry? One? They chopped off a quarter of their business when they shut down Front Page Sports, which had published a wildly popular baseball series, including a game many still consider to be one-of-if-not-the-best-ever, Baseball Pro 98. Sierra had to do what they did to try to salvage what was left of a major hunk of their customer base. And with this customer, they more-or-less failed. I buy on average five to six games a year, and I don't need my left hand to count the number of Sierra products I've purchased since 2000.

And I never did get that T-shirt.

To put FM08 and FPSro99 on anywhere near the same plane is a gross disservice to SI. </BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a fair point that fm08 is nowhere as bad as FPSpro99 and I conceded that in my post. Your post is also informative about their initial response.

However, my point is still that Sierra did apologise eventually and offered a choice of full refund or a free T-shirt, which is being honest and true to the customers, as well as a way to restore customer confidence/faith. I can not control what SI/SEGA do to their customers and I can not force them to admit the poor state of the game, but it is my opinion that an admission is needed an apology is appropriate.

isabe

Just imagine the game held back until Xmas. The same people would be flooding these forums moaning why the game hasn't been released earlier, EIDOS can do this so why SI/SEGA cannot? Moaners will be moaners, that's their nature, they'll always find something to moan about.