retired_Balanchinegal

Here we go again..

Right, rashidi1, I've started a new game after doing a few things.
Firstly, I took on board your advice from this thread and jotted the above instruction ideas on my notepad.
Then, I went and read over your "Building tactics" thread very carefully, taking notes as i went.
I started a new game and set about building a tactic/playing style whilst using the knowledge gained from the advice you gave both here, and on your own thread.
I'm not going for the 70's - 80's style as, like I said before, I don't think it's possible (for me anyway). I'm going for the modern style of football, the reason I'm doing this is because FM08 will be out before long and on FM07 I've yet to build a successful tactic. In fact, and this is quite remarkable, I've NEVER finished a single season with Liverpool, so now I'm going to try, with your help if you'll permit me.
Anyway, getting back on track (I tend to waffle); I'll carry on as before; explaining the tactic in detail as I develop it, showing all important screen shots. I'll update each month with progress.
I swear NOT TO DO the following: Give up; or "Save and retry". No matter what the game throws at me.

I will have the following screen shots soon:

Main tactic (team instructions)
Formation / mentality (fits one screen)
Passing
Closing down
Creative freedom
FWR / RWB / TTB
Crossing / cross from.

Once I have those screens uploaded I would like your input in case I've mis-read or misunderstood something, just in order to save my sanity later on down the line(season).
I have actually played 3 friendlies so far and won all three. Scoring goals is certainly no problem with the tactic (11 in 3), I also sort-of think I'm beginning to understand what I'm doing.
For example; playing a match away with the default tactic we weren't doing too good; possession was even as were chances, so I slowed the tempo down a bit and actually pushed the D-Line UP a bit and the following happened;
CB played a great DIRECT (as is set) pass to Target man, he flicks on to winger out wide, cross in; GOAL!!!
This happened twice in 15 minutes and is exactly as the tactic was set up to achieve - the FIRST TIME something has happened that I wanted to happen (if you know what I mean).
At the minute I'm very excited, I'll post more soon.

(I appreciate your help rashidi1, even though it's very late in the FM07 shelf-life, if only I can get through a full season with my team without quitting and declaring "I'll never play it again!" - thank you. )

retired_kellyk

You're on track Starr_Man5 , you'll be able to use the same principles for FM2008, I assure you.

firefighterhilf

I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes as the tactic sounds interesting.

I was just thinking though that the reason your 70's/80's style might have failed may be because it would now fail in real life. Todays football (particularly in The Premiership) is fast and furious and the standard of defending is much higher in my opinion. Because of this I feel teams and managers have had to adapt their tactics and therefor the way Liverpool played back then may not work today. Just a theory.

Good luck with the experiment though, I'll be interested to see the results. I'd like to give some input as to possible tactiacl tweaks but to be honest I'd probably hinder you more than help you.
I've managed to come up with one very successful tactic using a big lump of a target man and now just stick with that so as to avoid the minefield that is trying to create a new successful tactic. And the worst thing is I'm not entirely sure why my tactic works, just that it does

So if you manage to create one that works it may inspire me to also try creating a new one from scratch.

retired_Balanchinegal

Ok, I'm glad I won't be on here just talking to myself after all.

What follows is a detailed description of my tactic, as well as screen shots so you know what I'm waffling about.

Main team instructions

Mentality

Passing

Closing down

Creative freedom


You'll see by the main team instructions that we play a high tempo wing-play game. This is the default playing style which I will start most matches with and then in-game the width, tempo and defensive line can be tweaked according to how the game is going. This idea is going on the advice of rashidi1 and what I hope to do is keep this playing style, or as close to it as possible and use said tweaks in-game as much as possible.
I have already done this in a couple of friendlies to great success. Granted, friendlies are only friendlies but for the first time I understand WHY it is going wrong DURING the match and I'm able to react then and there to change things, and I know what I'm doing or at least what I'm trying to achieve.

Xabi Alonso is my Defensive Midfielder who dictates the tempo and you may think I'm mad giving him full creative freedom but his attribute in that is 20 - the highest - and it would be a shame to waste it, besides, he's been playing great so far; sitting deep, dictating the tempo and pinging passes all over the pitch - a joy to watch!

The main team is on zonal marking as default but this applies only to the Midfield and Attack, my four defenders are all on tight man marking - taking the advice given on wwfan's tactical thread about defensive marking.
My attacking Midfielder (Gerrard) and main Striker (Kuyt) are the only "Free Roles" I have selected, though if anybody feels I should have more for a modern Liverpool playing style then please, feel free to give me your thoughts/input.
My full-backs and Target man (Crouch) are the only ones who are told to "Hold up ball" but, again, your thoughts and ideas are very much encouraged and welcome.

What follows is a table (if it works!) giving the rest of the tactical instructions for individual players.

KEY: FWR (forward runs), RWB (run with ball), TTB (try through balls), C.B (cross ball), C.F (cross from).


..............FWR......RWB......TTB......C.B...... C.F

GK...........mixed...rarely....mixed...rarely..... mixed..

RB...........mixed...mixed.....mixed...mixed...... .deep..

LB...........mixed...mixed.....mixed...mixed...... .deep..

CB..........rarely...rarely....mixed..rarely...... mixed..

CB..........rarely...rarely....mixed..rarely...... .deep..

MR...........mixed....often....mixed...often.....b yline..

ML...........mixed....often....mixed...often.....b yline..

AM...........often....mixed....often...mixed...... mixed..

DM..........rarely...rarely....mixed...mixed...... .deep..

TM(Crouch)...mixed...rarely....mixed..rarely...... mixed..

ST(Kuyt).....often....mixed...mixed....mixed.....b yline(aim - target man)

I do hope that makes sense and turns out ok when I press "Post now".

That's as much info as I've got now, all feedback, ideas and thoughts is very much welcome.

retired_Balanchinegal

Bloody imageshack...

Creative freedom here

retired_Balanchinegal

Sorry, what I meant to mention is that I've based my tactics creative freedom not on what I think that tactic should have, but on each individual players creative ABILITY, hence maxing out Xabi Alonso's...
IMO this is an obvious thing to do but, again, if you think I'm wrong let me know.

firefighterhilf

Sounds good so far, lets see how the results go this time.

I have a couple of suggestions, but these are only for if it's not working because as I said I'm no tactical genious.

I've personally found that using tight marking and man marking together hasn't worked for me. My defenders tend to get dragged out of position, particularly by creative strikers.
Because of this I abandoned man marking altogether and just had my defenders tight marking zonally. The way I see it this means they'll mark players tightly, but only when they come into the defenders 'area' meaning the defenders don't get dragged out of position and leave big gaps for the midfielders to exploit.

The other small thing I've found useful (and you may have already done this) is to have the cross aim of your wingers and full backs set to the target man (or if you can't specifically set it to 'cross to target man' then set them to cross to the near or far post, depending on which side of the front two Crouch plays relative to the winger/fullbacks position).

I bought Crouch for my Sunderland team and he makes an absolutely fantastic target man.

Like I said these are just things that might help if you find the tactic not working.

Good luck :thup:

retired_Balanchinegal

It's the end of July and my friendlies are done, with some success too, oddly enough.
I'll just list them in order, and maybe give a note if I feel it's needed...

Rennes 1-3 LIVERPOOL - This is the match where, as explained above, I slightly tweaked the tempo and defensive line to devastating effect, delighted. Good performance all round.

Standard 2-3 LIVERPOOL - More comfortable than the scoreline suggests.

Silkeborg 0-5 LIVERPOOL

OB 1-0 LIVERPOOL - This match truly deserves a cliche - "We'll play ten times worse and hammer superior opposition" I have no idea how we lost this, they had one shot on target - the goal - and we dominated the match from start to finish in every department, just one of those days I guess.

Brentford 1-6 LIVERPOOL - I think we had six shots on target in this match including this one..., it's goals like this that make me love Xabi so...

All in all a pretty successful pre-season, I was able to tweak my tactic and alter my teams performance during matches which was nice.
The league kicks off soon, away against Newcastle United. I'm not paying much attention to the community shield, it's just a distraction really.
If Rashidi1 is about, could you give my tactic the once over, perhaps tell me if anything looks suspiciously dangerous or out of place? I'd just like to know before the season proper starts as I'm worried about getting my hopes up and then the thing falling flat.

retired_Balanchinegal

Rashidi1, are you there? Will you have a look at my tactics and team instructions for me, let me know if it looks close to what you were talking about before I start the league proper? Your help is appreciated, thank you.

retired_kellyk

I see some of the results they look good despite the fact that you are playing a high dline with counters on[. It is a bit risky cause you will need to make sure the balls don't go over the top of your dcs too often. I would set the formation to default on Normal.

1. Start any game on normal, or 8 clicks of dline. If you find that you are being under too much pressure than push the dline up to normal.

2. See how you do adjusting the dline like that.

3. Push it up looking for goals, if you are down.

***

Mentality

I see what you are trying to do, its admirable but you are really gunning for goals and throwing caution to the wind imho.

The reason I say that is because you have farrowed your wingers and given them high mentalities too. There is a drawback to all this. Your defenders will only find them with direct passes. It can work.

These are the risks you take. personally I would set mentality for the wingers at around 10. So they are not too far away. Only you can be the judge of this by looking at your pkms

It will make an excellent home attacking tactic

You have employed manmarking at the back. This is a risky formation. You will need to know the weak points of the tactic too.