retired_danig6484

I'm wondering if there is any interest here in having a custom save-game for testing tactics (and other game mechanics) with truly average teams....

I've come up with a system for taking the averages of player abilities for a given league (by position of course), and then somewhat painstakingly entering in this data into the editor.

The idea is to create (at least) 2 teams in a given division that are exactly equal, and perfectly average for their division. Then I will play these teams against each other to test various aspects of game mechanics, from tactics to the effects of morale and team talks.

In getting ready for FM08 I've somewhat perfected my system, but I must admit that it takes a lot of time to enter the data into the editor, and am wondering if this kind of special save-game for testing would be of any use to the community at large....

The easy part is taking the averages. I use Genie Scout to filter a league, order the columns to exactly match the editor's attribute order, save the results in a CSV file which I then import into Excel. In excel its a simple matter of applying the right filtering formulas to the data set, and presto.......a handy chart of average players for each position for any given division, all ordered nicely for ease of entering into the editor.

I then create 2+ players for each position per team, using naming conventions like "GK1 Champ" for 1st Goalkeeper of the English Championship.

I'm about halfway through creating these excitingly average players for Sunderland and Norwich (both in Championship last year), but its easy to move them to any team. When I'm finished I'll start a 2-manager game with time to re-arrange friendlies between the two teams. Then off we go to test various tactics against each other.

To anticipate the first comment on this project is to note that player abilities do not seem to be nearly as important as tactics, team 'gelling', and especially morale. While this seems to be true, I do have some hope of isolating these factors as well. However, because FMM (the realtime FM editor) does not seem to work with my game (WWSM and custom database. It doesn't even work with 7.0.2 for me!), I'll have some work manipulating and isolating these factors....

Now, for my questions to you:

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> 0. A really dumb question, but I need the real answer: Will my edited teams be transportable via a save-game, or would someone need the actual database to play?

<LI>1. What league and division do you think would be most useful for testing game mechanics? Clearly what works for Conf. North is going to be vastly different than what works in the Premiership, at least tactics-wise. Is my compromise to use the Championship valid, or should I create a very-much-lower-league version and a world-class version (twice the work!)?

<LI>2. Do you have any suggestions for how to test tactics against each other or otherwise isolate various factors to test game mechanics?

<LI>3. Again, is this project worth the editor-time? Would anyone use the db or save-games for testing? (and where to host...).

<LI>4. I may or may not finish the FM07 version, with FM08 coming soon. Is there any interest in an FM07 version? If so, it'll be English Championship...
</UL>
If there are eager data-entry types who just need the raw data, I'll be happy to email it to you for any league and division. Its the data entry part that takes the most time...... Also, if anyone would like to know the average stats for any position / division, let me know. It takes about 1 minute to produce the answer, if I have the league loaded in a save game...otherwise about 20 minutes.

Thanks,

Smack

retired_Balanchinegal

Shouldn't this be in the editors forum?
Maybe that's why nobody has replied thus far after a lot of views....

retired_danig6484

Its a long term project. Not to worry about reply speed...

As to the forum, tactics testing happens here, and that is the primary purpose of this project: to create a standard set of players for tactics testing. But since you bring it up, there is a parallel thread in the editing forum already : Here

retired_jblickley

0 - you need the the db...

retired_danig6484

Ouch. Really? I guess the save game just saves the unique ID's rather than all the data... Any second opinions out there?

..........

Update: I've finished Sunderland and Norwich and will post screenshots soon. I'm doing some final tinkering to even out the coaching staff, just in case this has much effect beyond the Ast.Man (on vacation games)....

retired_kellyk

depends if everyone on the test starts of with the same parameters ie... same update if its weegie.. then you could use the same save game.

But what are your objectives for such a test anyways? FM2008 demo isn't too far away.

retired_danig6484

rashidi1,

This isn't a tactics test, but a tactics testing platform.

So my objectives are to create a controlled environment wherein various game mechanics become easier to test, manipulate, identify, etc.. Another way to think of it is a tactics laboratory.

Size:

I've used the 7.0.2 update as the base, but have significantly altered the two teams for testing. As far as I understand it this means that the entire DB would have to be posted. RAR'd, this is something like 47megs. Not horrible, but significantly larger than an initial savegame with a small database, etc..

Its kind of amazed me since joining the FM community a few years ago that nobody has come up with something like this before. Granted, tactics have been gradually moved away from "Play with this one tactic all season" to a much more hands on system wherein the manager, to get the best from his team, will need to significantly adjust tactics to match opposition, conditions, etc..

Nonetheless, I do think that by creating exactly equal teams (down to the coaching staff, reputations, etc..), teams made up of 'your typical players' from the league being tested, that we can create an environment best suited to experimenting with tactics.

With FM08 coming out, I'm testing the waters here to see whether a testing environment like this would be useful to the community at large. Here, I can talk a little more about the larger objectives...

Each year we tactical nerds take the new game and go off to try and figure out what the various sliders and check boxes actually do in the game. We then come back and share our findings with each other and try to come up with theories and rules-of-thumb that make it easiest to describe how to use the tactics interface to best effect.

Anticipating this for FM08 I thought I'd come up with a system for creating a learning environment wherein the tactical researcher can isolate the various game mechanics to best discover how the whole black box actually works.

Last year we saw a slew of tactics and theories that seemed to work for some people and not others. It took a long time to realize just how much more important things like team-gelling and team morale were in 07 (and to some degree 06). It was no wonder that some tactics worked well while a team was the underdog, but fell apart when the team was a more feared opponent (importance of reputation, ranking, etc..).

With the hope of speeding up the process of coming to understand the tactical system in FM08, I'd like to give the community a little present: A testing environment where the factors that can be made unambiguous are isolated.

So the purpose is really twofold:

1. To create a tactics testing environment.

2. To create a black-box dissecting environment so that we can best learn how the game works.

3. To ease the learning curve for new players.

I'm doing this for FM07 to get my system down, and because FM08 is likely going to be quite similar to FM07, this version may be useful for a good long time to come.