XaW

Disclaimer: This in not a "effing AI cheats"-thread, but rather suprised look at how the match enginge works.
Intro
My tactic is a common 4-4-2 tactic which have worked wonders for me, with a bit tweeking to suit my opponents

My team:

League leaders by 8 points
12 match unbeaten streak
No injury problems
High morale
Attacking instuctions

My opponents:

Rock bottom in the league
10 match no win streak
Low morale

Result:

I get truly violated at home, losing deservedly 3-0 and to be honest I was lucky not to concede more goals. The big wow here to me was that my opponents didn't go on heavy defence to try to steal a point or three. No they came out with the guns blazing. Got the first goal against after only 2 mins. My GK(who had been fenomenal) tries to drible of an attacker and well, you know how it goes.

After this my whole team fell apart. My GK seemed like he though he was playing dogdeball. My fullbacks couldn't cross to save their lives. The centrebacks tried to make a living hell for my GK by some suicidepasses back to the GK. The wingers cleard the balls("Into row z, took no chances there") while alone with not a single opponent near. My CM had a competition over who could give the ball away the most and the few times I could get the ball to my strikers they though we where playing rugby(The commentary said so atleast).

I'm not writing this to bitch about the match engine, but rather to try to find out what went wrong. I can't see any reason to why they could rape me like that?

I checked the match stats, I had possesion 48% and 71% passcompletion. They had 15 shots, 10 on target. I had 3 shots 0 on target. I won 80 % of the headers(thanks to my targetman).

I've looked at this game now for about an hour and I can't seem to find out why I lost this heavyly.

Can someone who knows more about this than me explain it?

Dayle Wood

Your side pannicking and kicking the ball away suggests they were playing high closing down game and trying to win possession.

If you had noticed that early perhaps you could have made some changes.

Were you playing slow tempo or fast at the beginning?

Irrespective of where they were sitting in the table once you realise that they are playing in a certain fashion and it is outplaying you, you have to give them respect and change your tactic which was obviously unsuitable for the game that unwrapped.

YOu might have needed to play a less agressive game and perhaps tried a counter attacking style if you felt they were pushing forward a lot.

Keakiwi

I feel once you get a hang of how to respond to the limited range of scenarios the AI throws at you it can get a bit predictable, oh they're defensive, I need to do this... oops now they're attacking, flick these sliders and boom I'm back on top... really you just have to tweak your tactic to certain situations and remember what works... my main problem with the game is in a match like the one described you have a powerful confident team against a weaker, shaky opposition... but regardless the opposition come out gung-ho and unless you counter that you get murdered... it doesn't make sense, just coz you're opponents are attacking doesn't mean you should have to go defensive, you should be able to rely on your superior attacking ability to outdo them... I think it's a real flaw in the match engine, like a much weaker team pulling out the 4-2-4 at the end of the game and unless you react to it, then it works for them... can anyone see a team like Derby going all attacking and Arsenal becoming a counter-attacking defensive unit to stop them? Not really.

Dayle Wood

I can't argue against that - it's a good point.

XaW

Dayle Wood: I know and understand what you are saying, but for some reason I couldn't get it to work. I startet with attacking high tempo instructions since I thought this was going to be an easy game. After I got the first hit I thought it was just a lucky break from them, but when I saw I was getting hit like crazy I changed it to a bit slower and more defencive play. But for some reason that caused them to attack me even more. They where going totaly gung ho against me and my players where totaly unable to counter anything. Every time I got the ball my players tried to clear it out to a throw in or kick it up to my opponents def/GK.

Keakiwi: That's kinda how I felt aswell. But I must admit strange things happen in football, but this was like Colchester beating the crap out of Liverpool at Anfield. I feel my team should be good enough to beat their team regardless of tactics and formation. Especially when it's said that moral and/or flow has such a huge inpact on the game...

Starr_Man5

This is the sole reason why I gave up so many times before quitting for good, I've un-installed the game from my PC so I can no longer play it and get annoyed with it.
I think the problem is that in SI's attempts to eradicate "Super Tactics" they have tipped the balance of the game unfavorably to the AI.
It's a problem with a few games out there (Pro Evo 6 being a perfect example) - the makers of the game enjoy the fact that the game is difficult, not to everyone's taste, scares away the "Uninitiated"...
They haven't implemented a cheat in the game, they've simply over-compensated on the AI so you can't just "Crack it" and win every game with one tactic, there comes a time when you have to change, shape up or ship out.
It does happen, we all see it happening but the game communicates it to us in some bizarre ways; Ridiculous back-passes, completely unnecessary clearances, GK howlers etc etc...
But FM08 will be out soon enough, working perfectly, with no bugs, flaws or problems...


Yeah, right.

Dayle Wood

I wwould have kept the attacking momentum going but slowed the tempo down. I think by going more defensive you probably encouraged the onslaught.

Hard to say though without seeing the game for myself.

What tactic was the AI using? Was it a flat 442? a 442with arrows? That would partly answer my question.

XaW

The AI was using a 4-2-2-1-1 formation, kinda like the x-mastree formation CM2 style. I have never seen the AI play that formation against me before, that was one of the things that make me uncertain as to which instructions to give my players. All along the match I tried several different instructions, but in the end it seemed like I was doomed to lose no mather what I did. :eek:

XaW

sry, I checked again and it was a 3-3-2-1-1 formation...still x-mas tree formation, 3 centrebacks, defmid, wingbacks, 2 centremid, attmid, striker....if you understand?

J-beth

Did you play with man marking or zone?
Because I have noticed, that it ussualy do more damage than good when man marking, unless they play with two strikers on top.
Chelsea is the exeption to this rule, and should never be man marked no matter what formation they play.

Otherwise just look at it this way.
your streak without losing had to come to an end sometime. And their streak withtout a win had also had to stop.
Just to bad it happend in the same match