retired_scriler

In the tactic screen you can select from a nice long list of "standard tactics" Almost every formation you can think of. (Apart from the ones the AI changes to when you are winning )

There is also a list of "set to" positions for the players individual instructions.

My opinion is that i should be able to pick 442attacking, 442normal and 442defensive from the list. Apply my player instructions for each position from the "set to" list and then choose the correct tactic for correct situation. If i start with the normal tactic, change to attacking if i need a goal or change to defensive if i'm under too much pressure. (i may need to create an "all out attack" and a "shut up shop" version for extreme cases)

I think with this combination i should do relatively well in the english leagues if i have a decent squad as 442 is the standard for 95% of the teams in the english leagues.( not saying i should win the chamoions league after 3 seasons with Bradford)

The only issue with that is the team instructions for all three of the 442 tactics are identical. Straight down the middle on "normal/Mixed" for attack, normal and defensive alike. If they are just a template for setting up your own 442 tactics why have 3 variations? and why not call them tactic templates instead of st'd tactics?

I guess the point of my post is to ask the other players of our favorite football manager game.

1: Do you feel the game should be as "easy" to pick up and play as i suggest above?

2: Do you think standard tactics should be set up with team instructions by si? (the people who actually know what the sliders do)

3: Do you think it would give you a bit of a push in the right direction when it came to applying your own tactics?

4: what is your favorite colour?

Scrub that last question.

Some people who put huge amounts of (much appriciated) time and effort into helping with tactics. They have written some fantastic topics on tactic building and improvement.(Rashidi, cleon and wwfan to name just a few) These should not be overlooked. But i feel si should be doing more to help out the beginners and less tacticaly knowlegable players.

retired_elpata

1) The game is as easy as that, the standard tactics can bring lots of success without even changing much. However if you want to iron out the creases then you need to delve deeper.

2) Nope. Because that defeats the object of creating a tactic for yourself. Plus the instructions depends on the players you have. SI don't know the player you have and don't have so to set the settings accordingly would be too difficult. Its the reason why the standard ones are all simliar in settings..

3) No it would make people more idle and would create lots of moaning and complaints threads imo.

4) Red

I tell you what I think people need to do to make the game easier;

They need to use there own ideas more and stop over complicating things. Keep it simple. You don't need to have everyone on individual instructions. People need to understand what conflicting instructions are too. For example you want someone to hold up the ball yet you might instruct him to run with it too. All things like this can cause lots of problems.

As for the sliders I think the manual is clear in what they do. However for expanding on them it would be a great addition but imagine the size of the manual?

SI is a community hence the massive support on the forums. All id want from SI is for them to maybe more active in this forum and reply to more topics. But in terms of descriptions etc the manual covers that just doesn't expand on them.

retired_adriana6

I still think the root of the problem is that SI shot themselves in the foot with the sliders, in that there are just too many notches on them, I can't believe that it is necessary to have 1-22 mentality and 1-20 on the others, this is what causes a lot of anguish and confusion amongst the average user as opposed to the tactical gurus.

It just makes people end up obsessively tweaking their tactics, because they are worried that having closing down or defensive line for example one notch out, that this might make their tactic fall to pieces.

retired_scriler

Thanks Cleon.

But why have 3 variations of 442 (diamonds not included) if they are all the same?

I feel there are lots of very minor changes to be made with tactics.(which is great)That make a huge difference to your results.(which is not so great) I don't know why changing my DM's closing down from 6 to 8 made me concede 2 goals and lose posession. There is nothing in the manual to tell me why. I don't even know if that was why because my ass manager tells me nothing.

As you said in another post.

Sometimes changing just 1 little thing, no matter how small you think it is, can have a dramatic change on your tactic. Something so simple like changing someones closing down, can make you go from conceeding 2 a game to 0. Its a nice feeling when you stumble upon something though

Thats the whole point, You stumble onto it. I try to base my tactics on tactics you would use irl. Just simple variations of 442, applied to different circumstances you encounter during the game. Go narrower when defending, pull your wingers back to help your defenders etc.
But my players cant pass short passes to each other because the mentality is set too far apart? If i told steve gerrard to play more attacking i dont expect him to turn his back on alonso and charge upfield so alonso cant find him with a pass. He would find space for alonso to pass to him.

Thanks for your reply and imput.

retired_elpata

Its done on a larger scale so that its anot a drmatic change when you alter the slider. Its a gradual change. If you watch a game its easy to see if your closing down etc is working or not, then you just slightly alter it until it does work how you want.

I honestly cannot understand what all the confuison is about. If you understand what closing down means for example, then it should be clear what you are looking out for in game.

I guess its more aimed at people who are new to the game. Probably more an indication of what different variations of the tactic there is. Or for the people who just want to dive straight in and not bother too much for individual instructions. The individual instructions are aimed at people who want to go indepth that little bit more. But you don't have too you can have majority of people all on global settings and still achieve what you want.

Judging by what you said there, I take it you didn't watch the game? If you watched the game you might have seen something different and your DMC might be closing down too high up the pitch. While he was set at 6 that might have been a perfect balance for how the rest of your tactic was set up.

Thats just an exmple though, hope you understand what I mean...

Thats how I set up my tactics too. If you know in your head exactly how you want to play then the rest is easy I believe. As you will know what to look out for during a game and be able to identify things that need working on or changing. The key though is not to change too many things in 1 go as if something goes wrong you don't know which change as caused it. Were as if you do it gradual its much easier to keep track of what caused it to go wrong.

They can but it depends on the players positions when the player with the ball is going to pass it. For example; if the player with the ball is on 5 mentality and all the attackers are on 17 mentality and these are the players he will be passing too, then short passing wont work all the time no. Thats due to the gap between the players being too large. The likelyhood would be he'd give possession away. If you want to play a nice short passing game then you have to function as a unit and play as 1. This means keeping players mentalites close to each other.

That would depend on Alonso's passing and creative freedom. If you'd instructed him to short passing maybe around 5ish and Gerrard is too far away he wont recieve the pass. However if Alonso had high creative freedom then when something like this happens he'd use his own football brain and ignore your instruction of short passing and he would maybe try making the more longer/direct pass.

If you give someone attacking mentality then you are giving him a license to neglect his defensive duties and not come deep to look for the ball. And if Alonso was set up defensive then you are giving him a license to not venture forward and be attack minded.

This is why its extremly important to have mentalities simliar to each other so you can play exactly how you want too. If you wanted Alonso to break up play and look for the passes that will get people forward and find the likes of Gerrard etc then you'd set him on a more normal mentality.

retired_scriler

Thanks for spending the time to look through my gripes and replying.

I only watch the key incidents on the highlights screen. Maybe more time watching full match would clear things up for me. I have been relatively successful in fm07. But sometimes struggle to understand why things happen as they do.

Just picking up on a point about creative freedom. Would you say the players overide your instructions more often if the CF is set higher? ( or have i just got the wrong end of the stick) I was always under impression they would use their creativity and flair to try to create scoring oportunities more often if set higher.

Thanks again for your time.

retired_slayerbing

WH - Creative freedom simply makes your players less inhibited from your instructions. It gives them the freedom to do things that your tactic wouldn't allow for.

Example: Your DMC is poor at taking long shots so you have him on rarely for long shots.

With increased creativity he might one day see the keeper of his line and think, "hmmmm...thats an opportunity, I'm going to have a shot".

With decreased creativity he won't be as likely to take that shot.

But its not all rosy like that of course. The flipside is too much creativity to the wrong player will mean he will try to do stuff he shouldn't and there might be a good reason he shouldn't be doing it in the first place so lowering creative freedom puts a safety check on it.

You should apply creative freedom only to those you think will use it well.

retired_elpata

If you watch a few random games then you'll notice things you can improve upon instanly.

As for CF Dayle covers it pretty well.

retired_elpata

If you watch in more detail you'll see why something happened in most cases. You need to remember that mistakes do happen sometimes but if its happening regular its obvious its not a mistake. If you watch a game and you cannot understand why something happened you could always post saying exactly what happened and even post a pkm and some kind soul will answer you.

retired_kellyk

Just a rule of thumb when it comes to CF..think of your formation...if my formation is already a very attacking formation based on my individual instructions..then my CF is low sometimes non-existent for almost all my players. My best tactics have low cf