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‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #1
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t
This is a ridiculously long post so if you are short on patience or have no interest in using ‘show onto foot’ or specific man marking instructions then you may save yourself some time and stop reading now. I have included as many screenshots as I could to illustrate different scenarios but since posting screenshots for every single occurrence would take too long you can either take me at my word, or test it out yourself. If you have screenshots that illustrate different behaviours then feel free to post them.
***GENERAL DISCLAIMER***
All of what follows is theory based on watching matches in full detail and observing how players behave. I have never talked with anyone directly involved in coding the match engine so I don’t know one way or the other if this is how it actually works.
How the ‘show onto foot’ instructions might work based on my observations
This is a theory based on observation and I am in no way stating that this is precisely how the instruction works in the match engine.
In the following picture the hollow blue circle is the defender and the red circle is the attacking player in possession of the ball (the smaller black circle). When the passage of play occurs such that the defending player can be directly facing the attacking player in possession of the ball, then with no instructions he will line himself in direct opposition of the direction the player is going in. With the show onto foot instructions he will align himself at an angle as shown.
How the defending player will position himself also depends on where the play is occurring relative to the goal, but this doesn’t seem to happen perfectly as indicated in the following screenshots.
Notice how the Arsenal no.8 goes to close down Fletcher on the edge of the box. There are no specific ‘show onto foot’ instructions. He moves in a manner that suggests he is attempting to intercept where he expects Fletcher to be going to. Essentially I think the match engine does a vector interception calculation. You can see this by drawing lines of direction from both players in the initial screenshot, and seeing the interception point circled in black.
Why this vector interception movement is important to ‘show onto foot’
After watching numerous matches I am fairly convinced that setting ‘show onto foot’ instructions affects the direction of the vector which determines how a full back is going to chase back after a winger in possession of the ball. He will move in a manner that will allow him to reach a point of interception where he can show the opposition winger onto the relevant foot if given that instruction.
Here is a screenshot showing two similar situations (not perfectly similar but as close as I could find) from two different matches with different ‘show onto foot’ instructions. You can see a difference in how the Arsenal full back (no.2 red in both pictures) moves relative to where the Man Utd winger (no. 7 white and black Giggs) is heading.
This was generally what I observed but I must state it didn’t always happen identically to that but depended on where the full back and winger were coming from as the passage of play progressed.
With top class players with high key attributes (pace, anticipation, positioning, decisions) this effect does not have a major negative impact as by and large the player is able to make up the ground. In running a test with Blue Square South teams the effect of this vector movement was quite detrimental and often led to the opposition winger having far too much space to get a cross in early from deep or prior to reaching the byline.
Watch in the following screenshots as the Maidenhead right back (no 2 white) tries to get himself into a position where he is showing the Fisher left winger (no 7 red) to the inside but in doing so gives the Fisher left winger acres of space to pick an early cross.
The above screenshots occurred in a situation where the full back was goal side initially. When he was in a worse position it leads to the winger running on clear while the full back attempts to get into a ‘show to the inside’ position.
So with the lower level players the implementation of ‘show onto foot’ became more consistently inconsistent as they didn’t have the necessary attributes to be in the right place at the right time to attempt to dictate in which direction the winger could dribble. It also led to the winger having much more space as the full back attempted to reach his desired defensive position relative to the winger.
The effect of other tactical instructions (width, defensive line, mentality)
Having watched numerous matches in detail the conclusion I have come to is that a full back will apply the ‘show onto foot’ instruction if he is positioned relative to the winger to do so. Herein lies the problem as the difference between ‘attacking team width’ and ‘defensive team width’ inherently creates space between full backs and wingers thus reducing the likelihood of the full back being goal side of the winger in a face on manner.
The only way that full backs line up with the opposition wingers without specific man marking is when the defending team is set to the extreme right of the team width slider and the attacking team to the extreme left of the slider. This way they will tend to line up more closely. Anything in between leads to spacing between the full backs and the wingers across the width of the pitch relative to where the attacking opposition is in possession.
Defenders set to man mark/zonal marking without specific man marking instructions move as a unit relative to where the opposition team is in possession. Watch in the following screenshots as the Arsenal full back Traore passes infield to the Arsenal centre half Toure, how the Man Utd defenders move as a unit on the pitch.
So what happens is that a quick diagonal pass to the wingers, switching play often leads to the full back scampering back thus not being able to reach a position where he can push the winger in one direction or another.
This is further exaggerated when differences in mentality between the attacking winger (combined with farrows) and the full back leads to the full back not only being separated from the winger vertically but also horizontally.
In the following screenshots the Man Utd full backs ( 2 and 3 black) are set to a Mentality of 20, the Man Utd defensive line is set to 20, and the Arsenal wingers (6 and 7 red) are set to mentality 20 and long farrows. Eduardo (no 10 red) has picked up the ball just past the half way line and has sprayed a ball out right to Rosicky (no 7 red) who finds himself beyond the Man Utd full back because of the tactical settings of both teams has created this scenario.
This shows how the tactical settings of a full back compared to the winger results in the winger getting beyond the full back and reducing the likelihood of the full back being able to position himself so as to implement the ‘show onto foot’ instruction.
Using specific man marking to get full backs goalside
As I showed in previous screenshots the positioning of the full back relative to the winger prior to the winger gaining possession has an impact on whether or not the full back can influence the winger’s movement.
The only way that I have been able to compensate for this natural defensive narrowness is to use the specific man marking player instruction. In the following picture it is a similar situation in both screenshots just on opposite sides. All tactical settings for both teams are identical for both screenshots except for specific man marking in the screenshot on the left.
You can clearly see the difference in how the full back on the side opposite to where the ball is positions himself relative to the opposition winger. This is what I generally observed. How close the full back gets to the winger depends on their relative mentalities and whether or not the winger has a farrow (short or long).
What this has to do with the ‘show onto foot’ instruction is that by setting specific man marking and choosing the right mentality settings you can increase the probability of the full back being in a position whereby he can implement the instruction successfully. I use the word probability as the variety of ways in which a passage of play can pan out means it won’t work 100% of the time.
The downsides of using specific man marking
The first downside is that it can become tedious when the AI manager likes to switch between wingers positions, and even in some cases between a striker and a winger. The time delay between changing the instructions and that change being implemented in the match engine can lead to problems. Also how you play (commentary only to full match and anything in between) affects how difficult it is to react to the AI manager swapping players, either between positions or when making a substitution.
Secondly full backs set to specific man mark consistently get caught out when play transitions from their team attacking to defending. It doesn’t appear to be a positional thing. I have convinced myself that it happens due to the wingers having momentum as they run forward and the full back having to back up and then turn, thus needing to accelerate to gain top speed as the winger flys by them.
This is illustrated in the following screenshots as Gallas pumps the ball forward. Watch how the Arsenal wingers (6 and 7 red) have sped passed their opposing Man Utd full backs (2 and 3 black).
This happened almost every single time in similar situations. It also wasn’t attribute specific as you would expect. I thought it might relate to agility, acceleration and pace but here’s a comparison of the players from the above screenshots:-
Hleb (6 red) vs Silvestre (3 black)
Agility:1715
Acceleration:1316
Pace:1317
Rosicky (7 red) vs O’Shea (2 black)
Agility:1412
Acceleration:1412
Pace:1412
I don’t think those attributes warrant the regularity with which that occurred but you need to be aware that this is a consistent downside of setting up specific man marking of wingers. Sometimes the full back gets back in time, sometimes he doesn’t. You need to make your own decisions on whether or not the risk is worth it.
Poor decisions by lower quality full backs (Blue Square South in England) when set to specific man mark as well as poor positioning leads to getting caught out more frequently. Here’s one example from a few instances in a single match. The Maidenhead full backs are set to specific man mark the Fisher wingers. In the following screenshot watch how the Maidenhead left back completely ignores his man and then how the Maidenhead right back plays the opposition onside as he man marks the opposition winger.
It wasn’t unusual to see the lower quality fullback getting caught out 4 or 5 times a match, but every player is different so when using this method initially it is best to watch matches in full detail to get a feel for how effectively your full back can follow the instructions.
Another problem with using specific man marking is that it results in your centre backs becoming isolated against the strikers. In this screenshot Gilberto Silva has just hit a dinked through ball to van Persie. I have drawn a black circle to illustrate where O’Shea (man utd no.2) would probably be positioned if within the same tactical settings he had no specific man marking instruction (this is based on my observations so if you disagree feel free to say so).
You can see how the arrows indicate the ground O’Shea has to cover to help his team mate at centre half is greatly increased by having him specifically man mark the winger. Many people on these forums have hypothesised that when a player is in a position where he decides to shoot, the accuracy of that shot is affected by how pressurised he feels i.e. how close the opposing defenders are to him. If this is true then the specific man marking instruction reduces this pressure thus improving the likelihood of him scoring if he gets through.
In this case Brown (no 4 black) was able to recover and get goalside thus preventing the one on one.
So you need to have pacy centre halfs relative to the opposition strikers if you decide to implement the specific man marking instruction.
Also if the opposition midfielders break forward unmarked it can lead to the centre halfs being outnumbered and the full backs stretched out of position such that they cannot get back to help.
Some disadvantages to using ‘show onto foot’ instructions
This mainly relates to using the instruction to force a winger down the inside but the same type of logic can be applied to other uses.
------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by SSG Troyer in General Discussion
If the player has two strong feet, you're leaving a strong foot with a body's worth of space to play with. That can be a significant amount ... if he's one-footed, you leave his weak side unmarked, so he has a clearer passing/shooting lane. Of course, it's his weak side, so presumably any passes/shots he takes will be less accurate and/or not as pacey. An accurate passer, quality finisher, or someone with the right PPM, may be able to compensate...
The only difference between "show weaker" and " show left/right" is that I don't have to open the player's profile to find out what foot is stronger. Also, for wingers and FB especially, I will show to the foot that's not his side, no matter which is his strongest. ML always gets shown his right foot and MR always his left.
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Here’s one major issue I found with looking at the ‘show to inside’ instruction applied to wingers. It’s like SSGTroyer mentioned about the passing lane, but what happens is the player is able to pass into that lane using his strong foot.
When the winger would head for the byline, and reach it, the defender would position himself in such a way as to block a potential cross into the box as Sagna does against Giggs in the screenshot below.
But as I have drawn in below this often leaves a huge gap for the winger to cut the ball back for midfielders who haven’t advanced deep into the box. When this is coupled with the way that midfielders behave when tracking back this can lead to good shooting opportunities in and around the box.
See how the Arsenal central midfielders (8 and 9 red circled) have pushed back deep essentially ignoring the Man Utd central midfielders (8 and 9 white circled). The two Man Utd central midfielders are unmarked and Giggs has a clear passing lane as indicated by the arrow.
A quick couple of passes as indicated by the arrows will lead to the Man Utd no.8 having a decent amount of time and space in the box to have a crack.
In the above situation that’s not how it played out but it did so in the following screenshots:-
One key thing to note above is how ‘show onto foot’ appears to affect the angle and direction a defensive player will take when chasing back. You can see how Sagna who is behind Giggs moves in such a way as to position himself to the outside of Giggs as he chases back. This is the vector based movement I mentioned earlier.
For me what this means tactically is if you are going to use it on wingers you need to get your midfielders to pick up the opposition midfielders. Or you could use it to minimise the quality of the opposition team’s chances: How good is the winger at crossing vs. do they have a dominating big man up front to get on the end of those crosses vs. do their midfielders hanging on the edge of the box have good long shot related attributes. In other words use it to increase the likelihood of the opposition chances coming from their least likely to score source.
It had a similar type of effect when the fullback tried to show a winger to the inside from a deeper position whereby the winger would have a clear passing lane to his teammate striker if said striker was dropping off the centre half to act as a link man.
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All of the above is based on my observations of the game. Any criticisms, counter points or additional observations you might have which I haven’t included are welcomed.
12-14-2007, 07:21 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #2
Perhaps a 3 man defense with wingbacks might change things up?
Regardless, great read.
12-14-2007, 07:48 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #3
excellent stuff i demand this to be linked to the UNOFFICIAL TACTICS BIBLE
12-14-2007, 08:20 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #4
Excellent read, but not really something Im going to use tho . I dont have any problems with my defence.. its jus that damn issue with my stirkers who cant score..well after 5-6 shots they get one
12-14-2007, 09:41 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #5
I think the problem with the passing lanes to the midfielders should be able to fix by putting pressing on always on them at the opposition instructions team.
Good read.
12-14-2007, 11:06 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #6
An absolutely magnificent read, one of the best threads I have seen in a long, long time :thup:
12-14-2007, 11:42 PM
‘Show Onto Foot’ Instructions: How tactical settings reduce their effectiveness, their link to ‘specific man marking’ and some consequences of using t Post #7
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Also, for wingers and FB especially, I will show to the foot that's not his side, no matter which is his strongest. ML always gets shown his right foot and MR always his left.
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Do you actually show onto the left foot against a left-footed RM? Are there no strong side-effects to this? Like the winger being able to easily cut inside and leave the fullback behind?
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i demand this to be linked to the UNOFFICIAL TACTICS BIBLE
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