djake

[this is not a rant]

I've finally started my second season on 8.0.1 and am finding it much harder than season 1...

I'm managing HSV in the German league and in my first season managed to surprise the initial title odds of 16-1 by winning the league and cup double. Credit for that really goes to Xavierm's 4-1-3-2 tactic that I came across on this forum and tried out with amazing success (and only a couple of tweaks).

I took another look at the stats and was amazed to discover I conceded only 4 goals in the 17 league games I used the new tactic, plus another couple in the cup. Amazing stuff, lending truth to the adage that striker win games, but defenders win championships.

Come season two, and I am 6 games into the new campaign, I'm shipping an average of 2 goals a game. Wow. Highlight (or lowlight, depending) was a 5-4 away win to Cologne on matchday 5. I was 3-0 down after 14 minutes...

The news blurb said the game should be taped and used as an illustration of why they call it the beautiful game.

My right back, Guy Demel, said my half time team talk turned the game around for the team. Aah, the warm glow of player adulation...

Anyhoo, the point of this post is that the AI seems to learn fast. I had no idea how fast! I'll have to find a way to shore up the defence again, and fast.

Of course, the other thing is that the AI teams are now motivated as hell (so-and-so "playing with real fire in his belly") to gun down the champions.

If this was the music business, I'd be struggling with the "difficult 2nd album".

retired_dependablejay1

I've read in numerous posts from SI that the AI doesn't break your tactics, so it is more likely to be a mix of things and probably importantly your elevated status as champions.

djake

The game seems more complex than simply going back to killer tactics, so SI should be complimented on that.

Last night I went back to the "vanilla" Xavierm tactic I originally downloaded. The only changes I made were to the instructions on attacking corners.

Only got to play 4 matches, but I still have real difficulty in my back 5.

CL (Home) v Arsenal, lost 1-2 (left fullback just stopped tackling, both Arsenal goals came from attacks down my left, long crosses to van Persie...)

BL (Away) v Mainz, won 2-1 (2-0 up at half time and despite "don't get complacent" speech, they did, but we managed to hang on against a promoted team...)

BL (Home) v Aachen, won 3-0 (set my team talk to "the result will come" to avoid pressuring them, poor fragile divas that they are, and they seemed to dominate like last season, but against a poor promoted side)

BL (Home) v Stuttgart, lost 0-2 (pipped Stuttgart on the last day of last season, when they lost the championship by conspiring to lose 1-0 away to Dortmund and I won the league on goal difference, so they were extremely motivated; I dominated the game, but they scored twice with their 3 shots on goal, while their goalkeeper had a man of the match performance...)

By themselves, none of the results seem that impossible. You can lose to Arsenal at home, you can lose to Stuttgart at home. You would expect to win against promoted teams.

What seems so challenging is that after conceding only 4 in 17 league games for the run in to the championship, I am now the worst team, defensively.

Guys who had average stats of between 7.1 and 7.3 last season, are now on 6.1, 6.2 average rating.

Maybe there's a general complacency in the squad after doing the double? And the other teams are now hugely motivated against the champions.

On the upside, I scored 3 from 3 corners in 4 matches!

Plans for world domination momentarily on hold until I figure this out.

[*strokes white cat wearing a jewel-encrusted collar*: "The Champions League will be mine, oh yes, it will be MINE!"]

retired_redhotxpress

I am using the same tactics for 3 whole seasons now with a lot of success.

Same as you I have noticed a slight decline in success after winning PRM and CL, plus reaching both cup finals in my first year.

But I stuck to my tactics and kept going without much tweaking (other than the tiny usual bit that I do) and managed to climb the ladder of success again.

What I think is the main reason behind this form curve is the balance of the team... buying and selling players. Usually after season 1 I have the largest amount of transactions, getting rid of all those unworthy ones and bringing in some worthy ones, especially since there is a lot of money available after a successful season.

At the end of season 2 I brought in 2 players and sold 2... I had no problems during my world domination (well at least being within the top 2 )

So to wrap things up, I think it is the balance of the team more than anything else.

djake

You are onto something there, opul. But in the same way balance is hugely important, as is continuity, I think if you don't shake things up after a successful season, players can get complacent.

I only bought 1 new player, Stefan Kiesling from Leverkusen, for 15 million euro, and he has not settled in well. Maybe that's disrupting the balance.

Anyway, managed 3 more matches last night. Without Rafael van der Vaart, I might add, as he is injured for 2 months .

CL (Away) v Sporting CP, won 2-1
Went down to a soft goal after only 12 minutes, defender running away from the ball, striker gets a free run at my GK. That has happened before and is not pretty!!

My tactics were too cautious (mentality = 8), and I upped the ante after 30 minutes, but it wasn't until a late double strike by my much maligned new signing that I won the game.

Something curious happened:
At 81 minutes, I go into the tactics screen and select All Out Attack. Back on the match screen and the game is waiting to apply the changes, when Kiesling scores on 83 minutes. I am happy to take a late equaliser and wait for the tactical changes to be applied, at which point I immediately go back to the tactics screen to tone down my mentality. AI obviously goes to 4-2-4 at will.

Back on the match screen and waiting for the tactical changes to be applied, when Kiesling scores again (86 mins). Only then do I do the tactical changes get applied (to ultra defensive and wasting time = often).

That's not implemented well in the game, IMO, as the AI can change tactics at will, sometimes rapidly.

Still, the 600,000 euro win bonus are a ... er, bonus.

A note on match stats:
Sporting - HSV
shots/on target
17/9 - 14/6

BL (Away) v Hertha Berlin, lost 1-2
Took the lead on 55 minutes, but lost to two late goals (79, 86 mins). Whereas in the Sporting game I profited by sheer luck from the vagaries of the match engine, this time the game stabbed me in the back.

Playing a 4-1-3-2 against their 4-1-2-1-2, I had a DMC (Nigel de Jong) specifically marking and hard tackling their AMC. Of course he got a yellow card, so on 60 minutes I subbed on another DMC (Guy Demel), who looked after their AMC. Being 1-0 down, the AI obviously went to 4-2-4.

Here's the frustrating thing: even as I clicked into the tactics screen to remove the specific marking on their AMC (who was now FL), the AI scores and goes back to 4-1-2-1-2.

So I go back in and reset the marking. The AI now goes back to 4-2-4 and reverts to 4-1-2-1-2 a couple of times, also making a couple of late subs. Anyhoo, my poor confused DMC is now specifically marking their MR, their free AMC waltzes through my defence and scores the winner on 86 minutes.

Since the AI can change at will, it became impossible to adjust my own tactics that often and that quickly. While I won't claim it's a bug, it's certainly a weakness of the game.

Match stats:
Hertha - HSV
shots/on target
17/8 - 9/6

Oh, another thing: since I have now lost 2 in a row, the news item said "Sorry HSV lose again." I'm still 7th, not some relegation fodder...

BL (Home) v Nuremberg, won 1-0
I completely dominated this game from start to finish, with 56% possession, 28 shots/13 on target, attacking for the full 97 minutes...

The post match blurb said HSV taught Nuremberg a lesson.

I only scored after a corner, bringing my corner tally to 6 for the season. At least I got that sorted.

Here's the thing, though: Even though the Nuremberg GK saved 12 from 13 shots on goal and single-handedly prevented a tennis score defeat for his team, his rating was 6. It should have been 8 or 9...

Three more games and three more strange behaviours. I am beginning to understand the immense frustration many people are feeling with this game. Some are saying FM08 is the worst release since CM4, and it's the many, many little quirks and bugs and weird behaviours that contribute to such an assessment.

retired_prison4515

Agreed with Opul, I usually ring the changes and find my early season form is poor, but after 4/5/6 games it tends to pick up, the latest example was with Juve where I really struggled to begin with until the team bonded. Try to have plenty of pre season friendlies to ensure that come the start of the season, your team is operating as a unit