circlewalker

Those are all minor and subtle changes that are often changing during real matches.

retired_klm81

Tal_Hides, I agree with you 100% mate.

firefighterhilf

No-one's saying there are no problems with the game. But the AI apparently 'cracking' your tactics certainly isn't one of them.

The known issue that you mention about the user creating an unrealistic number of one-on-one chances has absolutely nothing to do with your tactics being sussed by the AI manager.

And you don't have to constantly change your tactics to be honest. I've settled on a nice balanced tactic which I'll be sticking with now for a while. It's got me promoted with Gateshead from the BSN. But if I get to be a premier league force in the future I'll have to think about playing a little less cautiously simply because I'll have the players capable of doing so.

So, as I was saying, it is possible to make a nice balanced tactic that you can stick with. But as you go to either extreme, either attacking or defending, you'll find your tactic can be cancelled out by teams playing tactics that counter yours. In these cases you'll need to make small changes every now and then against certain opposition.

And I've found the changes needed do make sense. If I'm vastly outclassed I have more success playing narrow, defensive, counter attacking football against them. If I'm the massive favourite I find it better to play with more width, slower tempo and shorter passing to get that patient build up going that will be needed to break them down. All seems to make sense to me to be honest.

retired_kriss89

I was never disagreeing with you that about the AI cracking tactics, I dont think they do at all. But I think when the AI acts to play defensively against a stronger team it is all too effective in countering the stronger team.

It makes sense to try and break a team down, playing much wider and opening up space against a weaker team. Again I don't disagree. However, in the Premiership I don't think it's possible to slow the tempo down. The English game is so fast paced and competitive you cant slow down the play because defensive teams will get amongst you and essentially rough you up. Arsenal know exactly how that feels!

What I find is that the tactical changes needed stop making sense when you actually start the game and see what is happening. I imagine the comeback here will be about watching the full match rather than key highlights because you cant spot the problems. I disagree, you don't need to watch the full match because the key highlights and the player stats and ratings show there are no problems. You watch your team carve out numerous chances, many of which you can expect them to score, yet they fail to do so. Then you get told it's all your tactics. Essentially the information you are being given throughout the game is totally unhelpful, your tactical changes have to be totally intuitive, guessing what the problem might be even though everything you're watching is telling you you shouldn't have a problem and that you should have already scored a ton of goals!

I understand what you're saying Chopper, but I still think the 2D engine and the match stats are being far too misleading, making it hard for people to understand they even have a problem. This is why so many people immediately cry foul and claim the game is bugged.

firefighterhilf

I agree with you entirely here, which is why I'e been banging on about getting some assistant manager feedback or something similar since FM07. I was disappointed that this wasn't included in FM08 but that issue is for a different thread topic entirely

retired_kriss89

Oh and as a last addition, I'm not looking for a single tactic to win me everything. I just think there's too much importance put on the tactics your play, and not enough on how well you prepare for the game beforehand. I'd much rather have more involvement in training, boosting morale and getting my team fired up, whereas it seems that you can just brush over these aspects of the game, yet one slight error in your tempo settings means your players can't score from 2 yards out.

If the problem is that we're not creating good chances then the match engine has to demonstrate this, rather than making me feel like my striker deserves to be shot!

circlewalker

All that shows is the weakness of the stronger team's tactic.

retired_kriss89

Certainly agree with you there. At the moment I always feel like my assistant is just an overpaid member of my coaching staff!

We get feedback from everyone else so I'd like to see some from my assistant too. He obviously knows what he's doing! I often end up turning over my friendlies to him as we seem totally unable to defend if I play a non-league team, it got too embarassing for me to take watch, although I suppose it's even worse when he gets it right and I know it's my fault we were useless and I dont even know why!

retired_kriss89

I would agree with that point Ackter if it were a case of the stronger team playing poorly against a defensive tactic and failing to break them down.

What a lot of people seem to be saying is that their tactic doesn't seem to be weak. The result shows there must be a flaw somewhere, but the fact that your team seems to have done well and your ratings are quite high, combined with the match engine showing multiple chances that look like they should be tucked away, suggests that your tactic is absolutely fine. At this point it becomes very difficult to understand what is wrong, you are left to making some intuitive changes until things go right. I still maintain that a lot of people are struggling with the lastest version because everything they are seeing tells them they should be winning, how are they meant to make effective changes when the team seems to be doing exactly what they want them to do, yet failing to score.

Dav1d

It did. By 'cracking' your tactic I mean the same as the other team making changes to suit your tactic. Same thing to me. I don't mean that they just one day, know how to counteract it but tactics did come unuseable in Fm07 pretty quickly. Fm08 is spot on.