cia admits bush knew saddam had no weapons of mass destruction

retired_ks reddy · 09-06-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fat Bhoy Tim:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Fat Bhoy Tim:
Must say, quite surprised Tenet just kept his mouth shut and allowed himself to be shot down. I can at least respect that, not wanting to undermine his President and administration in public.

Seems more likely he believed WMD would be found. He had more opportunity than anyone to push for belief in Sabri privately, and didn't. </BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact he toed the party line in public well after the event suggests so. But when it comes to half the stuff that goes on in intelligence circles, you're through the looking glass with most of it. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say that's more suggestive that he did believe it. He didn't start having doubts and putting his umbrella up.

retired_the gizmo · 09-06-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Satan, look at my pert arse!:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Daaaaave:
at this point, I'm more surprised this information is getting out prior to bush leaving office.

there are a number of surprising revelations in this and I hope some of them can get discussed rather than more smug one-liners and general mongery.

I'm surprised tenet never said anything to powell. and that tenet took the fall on this without ever dropping dime.

I'm surprised blair got completely hooked and mi6 couldn't find any contradictory information of their own (since I'm sure they were also in contact with french intelligence).

Didn't Powell get ****ed off afterwards and leave the administration?

I suppose MI6 had their own bad intelligence as well with Niger and all. 9/11 had the sentiment with the Yanks anyway.

Also was 'curveball' codenamed after he was found out? apt.

One more thing, Iraq had used chemical weapons before, so a strong reason to convince that they still had them. </BLOCKQUOTE>

powell left after the 2004 election. it was termed a normal change to keep things fresh, but the truth is that powell was kept out of everything by rumsfeld and rice (except when he was called up to give that report) and bush didn't need him anymore and wanted his own man (so to speak) in the position

retired_selvinel · 09-06-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by TheCranker:
Can't help but feel those political ramifications would be a big issue so he had to believe those WMD were there. He would have been given supporting evidence that the WMD existed because he wanted that intelligence. I don't think he thought ahhh **** it I'll attack and no one will care when they find out I lied. I think that's part of the reason he could convince others because he actually believed.

Quite apart from the other reasons to dispose of Saddam. That's why I think he believed in the WMD. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I've always felt Bush honestly believed it, and clearly enough information he was shown suggested it to him.

retired_autumn · 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Satan, look at my pert arse!:
One more thing, Iraq had used chemical weapons before, so a strong reason to convince that they still had them.

And putting himself in Saddam's shoes, Bush would find it impossible to believe that a leader would destroy his only effective weapons if he had them. He sorted Putin by looking into his soul, so he does this sort of thing.

And that's why he initiated the surge and thinks it's going so swell. In his heart, he knows it's true, so the facts will catch up eventually.

retired_ks reddy · 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Retro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Daaaaave:
maybe the most sort of objectively interesting thing in all this is bush's charisma. tenet was a clinton appointee and bush still got him to roll. powell a man of immense reputation and bush still got him to roll. all down the line in the build up to the invasion, the people that you would think would be unmoved by bush's reckless singlemindedness ended up falling in line.

it's easy to say that everyone in politics is tainted, and therefore not to be trusted, but I honestly dont believe that. there were good people in the state department, the cia, the military...all throughout the government that either fell in line or stayed silent. it makes you wonder what kinds of pressure they were under that you don't know about.

What kind of pressure? Many were wealthy enough, so are you saying death or framing for long terms in prison? </BLOCKQUOTE>
I think if the alternative is that Bush's charisma won them over, it sounds more practical.

As Daaaave says - the whole government either toed the line or kept schtum - which is something I do find odd given events and revelations since. </BLOCKQUOTE>

But are we just thinking what they want us to think?

:****this:

retired_princesspouty · 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Retro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Daaaaave:
maybe the most sort of objectively interesting thing in all this is bush's charisma. tenet was a clinton appointee and bush still got him to roll. powell a man of immense reputation and bush still got him to roll. all down the line in the build up to the invasion, the people that you would think would be unmoved by bush's reckless singlemindedness ended up falling in line.

it's easy to say that everyone in politics is tainted, and therefore not to be trusted, but I honestly dont believe that. there were good people in the state department, the cia, the military...all throughout the government that either fell in line or stayed silent. it makes you wonder what kinds of pressure they were under that you don't know about.

What kind of pressure? Many were wealthy enough, so are you saying death or framing for long terms in prison? </BLOCKQUOTE>
I think if the alternative is that Bush's charisma won them over, it sounds more practical.

As Daaaave says - the whole government either toed the line or kept schtum - which is something I do find odd given events and revelations since. </BLOCKQUOTE>

But are we just thinking what they want us to think?

:****this: </BLOCKQUOTE>

retired_the gizmo · 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Retro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Daaaaave:
maybe the most sort of objectively interesting thing in all this is bush's charisma. tenet was a clinton appointee and bush still got him to roll. powell a man of immense reputation and bush still got him to roll. all down the line in the build up to the invasion, the people that you would think would be unmoved by bush's reckless singlemindedness ended up falling in line.

it's easy to say that everyone in politics is tainted, and therefore not to be trusted, but I honestly dont believe that. there were good people in the state department, the cia, the military...all throughout the government that either fell in line or stayed silent. it makes you wonder what kinds of pressure they were under that you don't know about.

What kind of pressure? Many were wealthy enough, so are you saying death or framing for long terms in prison? </BLOCKQUOTE>
I think if the alternative is that Bush's charisma won them over, it sounds more practical.

As Daaaave says - the whole government either toed the line or kept schtum - which is something I do find odd given events and revelations since. </BLOCKQUOTE>

government investigations into former business deals. no more seats on the board of oil companies. there are a number of ways to hurt an uncooperative politician.

retired_justin05 · 09-06-2007, 06:14 PM

Saying the rest of the govt kept quiet implies they knew there were no WMD. I think everyone thought they were there. Plain and simple. Enough intelligence existed to support either opinion . The opinion was chosen, the intelligence supported it and so everyone believed. I just don't think it's that surprising or even that relevant.

retired_ks reddy · 09-06-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fat Bhoy Tim:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by TheCranker:
Can't help but feel those political ramifications would be a big issue so he had to believe those WMD were there. He would have been given supporting evidence that the WMD existed because he wanted that intelligence. I don't think he thought ahhh **** it I'll attack and no one will care when they find out I lied. I think that's part of the reason he could convince others because he actually believed.

Quite apart from the other reasons to dispose of Saddam. That's why I think he believed in the WMD. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I've always felt Bush honestly believed it, and clearly enough information he was shown suggested it to him. </BLOCKQUOTE>

But did Tenet honestly believe it? Or was it a way to kill two birds - Saddam and Bush?

retired_ks reddy · 09-06-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daaaaave:

government investigations into former business deals. no more seats on the board of oil companies. there are a number of ways to hurt an uncooperative politician.

They're all corrupt?

cia admits bush knew saddam had no weapons of mass destruction

Grab a beer, sit back and relax.

cia admits bush knew saddam had no weapons of mass destruction