retired_princess160

On an economy geared towards war - that's a very strange comparison.

retired_annmariealexander

On an economy geared towards war - that's a very strange comparison. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

But was i correct in assuming that you blame the lack of prosperity in Islamic countries for this hatred towards the West (By some muslims )?

If so, what do you think our course of action should be to try and change the current situation (and what role those societies themselves should take on in that process of change)?

Mind you, i disagree with you. Just curious about your outlook.

retired_princess160

'We' can only try to make circumstances favorable for changes - a forced regime change, as shown by examples in Africa, South America and of course Afghanistan (twice now) and Iraq, seems to inevitably lead to a power vacuum that is filled by oppressors of whatever flavour.

It looks like there needs to be a critical mass of a large part if not the majority of the population who want things to change and who are willing to risk life and limb to bring it about (don't confuse them with those who are willing to risk themselves to create chaos).

See the countries of the former Eastern Block. Some of the changes there even took place without or with a minimum of violence - 'Velvet revolution'.

It just so happens that Iran recently arrested some dual-citizenship Irani/US citizens, accusing them of inciting just that, a velvet revolution. They know what's coming and there's eff all they can do about, unless 'we' are so stupid to start bombing the place. No better way to keep a people distracted than a common enemy.

retired_ks reddy

I'm a fat rich priviliged person who can do whatever he feels like without having to bother where his next meal comes from (ever, even if he loses his job), who has full confidence in getting treated if he gets sick, amongst whose biggest worries is if Ajax will get the title this year.

Counting my blessings here (there's room for improvement of course )

Don't tell me that not everybody wants to be like that </BLOCKQUOTE>

You're point being:"If we provide prosperity for Islamic countries, they will stop hating us"?

If so: How would you suggest 'we' go about doing that and don't you think that the prosperity of Islamic countries should be foremost the responsibility of Islamic Countries? </BLOCKQUOTE>

We already did that by paying them fair price for their oil and even providing the expertise they lacked in it's efficient extraction.

They saw it as colonialism. Because that's what their leaders told them it was. What actually happened was the leaders *****ed all the dough on tanks to make sure they stayed leader, and in trying to destabilise their neighbours so they could become the next pan-islamic champion.

retired_ks reddy

I'm a fat rich priviliged person who can do whatever he feels like without having to bother where his next meal comes from (ever, even if he loses his job), who has full confidence in getting treated if he gets sick, amongst whose biggest worries is if Ajax will get the title this year.

Counting my blessings here (there's room for improvement of course )

Don't tell me that not everybody wants to be like that </BLOCKQUOTE>

You're also an inexplicably close-minded person who's absolutely certain your ways are the best ways. And that everyone else would see that if only they'd have a goosey - when in actuality you're a blinkered fundamentalist yourself. You're still a heavy metal fundamentalist, ffs.

retired_ks reddy

'We' can only try to make circumstances favorable for changes - a forced regime change, as shown by examples in Africa, South America and of course Afghanistan (twice now) and Iraq, seems to inevitably lead to a power vacuum that is filled by oppressors of whatever flavour.

It looks like there needs to be a critical mass of a large part if not the majority of the population who want things to change and who are willing to risk life and limb to bring it about (don't confuse them with those who are willing to risk themselves to create chaos).

See the countries of the former Eastern Block. Some of the changes there even took place without or with a minimum of violence - 'Velvet revolution'.

It just so happens that Iran recently arrested some dual-citizenship Irani/US citizens, accusing them of inciting just that, a velvet revolution. They know what's coming and there's eff all they can do about, unless 'we' are so stupid to start bombing the place. No better way to keep a people distracted than a common enemy. </BLOCKQUOTE>

How about taking a look at Morocco - seems they just voted in the islamists. Just after the US granted them the largest economic aid package ever given to a single country. Ah well.

Then look next door at Algeria - over 100 dead and upwards of 500 wounded in the last 3 days as the islamists attack the government that won't let them win an election. Worse than Iraq this week, I think.

Velvet revolutions? Keep dreaming.

retired_ks reddy

Still interested in where your 'bread and games' idea is working btw. Or are you going to have to admit it's not?

retired_annmariealexander

Hmm, how do 'we' create favourable circumstances and has it ever occurred to you that perhaps a majority or 'critical mass' of the population does not want things to change?

Or that the reason why chaos reigns after the attempt to 'enforce' freedom and democracy to these societies is because these societies simply are not ready for thar yet?

I mean, how can one even begin to contemplate a Democratic structure for a society in which power is still a thing of tribes, families and clans?

I think you grosely exadurate the influence 'we' can have in bringing about any change in that. Again, when they are ready, they will change things around like we have but in the mean time we still suffer the concequenses.

retired_princess160

The pot telling the plate it's black, tbh. I'm always open for a reasonable dialog, you warmongers are the only people accusing me of being extremist. In reality, as you can't but admit, I'm pro everyone, which is the bone of contention with you.

My taste in music makes my political views wrong? Grasping at straws?

retired_princess160

The newspaper I read reported largely apathatic voting (lowest turn out ever) and that the extremist islamic party was forbidden to take part. Hmmm, who am I going to believe?

I will. As long as we don't kill any, that brings down the number of casualties. Them killing eachother should be right down your alley, by the way, so what are you fussed about?