[retired_mnw_cna]

Originally posted by Zaitsev:
I dislike Trevor Philips. And the CRE.

I agree. I don't want to, but I don't think he does himself any favours.

[retired_princesspouty]

Originally posted by TheCranker:
Don't see why it's unwieldy as he isn't saying include everything but rather the bits relevant to modern Britain.

The bits relevant to his agenda you mean surely?

My point is quite clearly that if we broke down the Armada and those events that led to it's demise - we could probably shoe-horn just about every nation in Western Europe and the Mediteranean basin. It's mentioning something fairly irrelevant merely for a specific purpose.

[retired_the gizmo]

it's so like the muslims to downplay something they achieved 500 years ago. completely understandable how this managed to go underreported.

[retired_mnw_cna]

Retro - I kind of see there is a point to Trevor Phillips' view, much as I don't like him. I mean, if we were looking at the start of WW1, say, we'd consider all the factors in examining the causes of the war: Balkan nationalism, empire building, the arms race, etc. So if there are other factors which contributed to the defeat of the Armadillo then let's have a look at them.

Isn't the question to what extent the Turks did have an impact on the situation? You're perfectly right in saying that you could argue just about anything going on at the time had some impact, whether it's the village blacksmith in Hambledon having a hangover or the machinations within the Spanish court.

[retired_justin05]

Originally posted by Retro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by TheCranker:
Don't see why it's unwieldy as he isn't saying include everything but rather the bits relevant to modern Britain.

The bits relevant to his agenda you mean surely?

My point is quite clearly that if we broke down the Armada and those events that led to it's demise - we could probably shoe-horn just about every nation in Western Europe and the Mediteranean basin. It's mentioning something fairly irrelevant merely for a specific purpose. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you could shoe-horn every nation in but Muslim history of more relevance to modern Britain than say Greek history. That's a valid point irrespective of an agenda he may have.

[retired_rinkjustice]

Originally posted by Daaaaave:
it's so like the muslims to downplay something they achieved 500 years ago. completely understandable how this managed to go underreported.

By that logic, given our tendency to do the same - one wonders why very few people would be able to tell you why or when we were in Tripoli.

[retired_the gizmo]

except no one ever really cared about the barbary pirates.