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Old 09-03-2007, 09:00 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #41
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The suggestion is that if the 3 grand isn't spent on this, it will be spent on something else being done.

That may be true, but it's not guaranteed because you can't just transfer funds to something else and expect to see an impact like that. Simply because most other forms of treatment, i.e. ones that aren't chemotherapy, require qualified staff and the facilities.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:50 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #42
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I don't know the specifics of this case, but generally they fall into one of two categories. But before we go further, we need to agree to stop using emotive and factually incorrect terms like "magic bullet" treatments, which almost (but not quite) never exist.

The first type of cases like this are with drugs which are proven to be very effective.I'll take Herceptin as the example, as it was both the most high profile case, and one i know a little bit about. The problem there was that while clinical trials had proven the effectiveness of the drug, all drugs have to go through NICE to be evaluated. That process takes time, and while it is being done, PCT's can choose whether or not to use them. So there was a "postcode lottery" as such, in that some PCT's decided to give it in the meantime, and some decided to wait for NICE's decision. The one thing that didn't happen, although it was the impression given in some quarters, was that NICE somehow did an about turn to public pressure over the drug. They came to the right conclusion first time around, although there is an appeals procedure had they rejected it.

The second, and far more common scenario, is the one i believe will be the case here, and it rests on a phrase FBT used earlier, which was "prove it's effectiveness". In these cases, as in real life, things are rarely black and white. What happens with many of these drugs is that while they are hailed as a success, in reality while the patients they do help get real benefits, they are effective in only a small percentage of cases. So the real calculation is not £3000 for the drug, and not even how many lots of £3000 to get one course of treatment for one patient. It's of those courses of treatment , how many will actually prove to be clinically effective? The NHS simply can't afford to keep throwing money at drugs that in the majority of cases will have little or no clinical benefit, even for the sake of the odd one where it will have great effect.

Just a couple of other points.

Quote:
The cost of the medications isn't really an issue. The capacity the NHS can provide for each type of treatment is dependent on the qualified staff.
The cost of the medications is precisely the issue, because the cost of them has risen exponentially in recent years. The issue of qualified staff and facilities isn't a huge one, for the simple reason that there aren't many other than minor advances being made in the area's of radiotherapy and surgery, which are the major two significant options to drugs/chemo. So while you can throw money at those to reduce waiting times (which will improve survival rates up to a certain level, and has been done to some extent) those costs are relatively fixed.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:52 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gregg Carter:
I'm actually starting to wonder whether it's actually right for the NHS to pay ludicrous amounts of money to people with what are essentially terminal diseases.

£3000 a month just for somebody to be more comfortable due to their illness seems very wasteful to me tbh.
agree 100%, i hate the nhs, 2nd rate treatment and drugs, it would be better if the damned thing was privatised
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:54 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by mark g:

The cost of the medications is precisely the issue, because the cost of them has risen exponentially in recent years. The issue of qualified staff and facilities isn't a huge one, for the simple reason that there aren't many other than minor advances being made in the area's of radiotherapy and surgery, which are the major two significant options to drugs/chemo. So while you can throw money at those to reduce waiting times (which will improve survival rates up to a certain level, and has been done to some extent) those costs are relatively fixed.
You've utterly missed my point by focusing on the concept of treating just that one issue. I'm referring to the concept of that being tossed anywhere around the NHS, for something innocuous but just as required. Like a hip replacement as was mentioned earlier.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:56 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #45
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Agree on the rest though, for the most part.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:57 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #46
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you're crying about 2nd rate treatment whilst at the same time advocating the withdrawal of treatments that could improve the quality of life of thousands of people with terminal illnesses and, if nothing else, allow them to die with dignity?
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:00 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gregg Carter:
I'm actually starting to wonder whether it's actually right for the NHS to pay ludicrous amounts of money to people with what are essentially terminal diseases.

£3000 a month just for somebody to be more comfortable due to their illness seems very wasteful to me tbh.
I'll get you an invite to the Palliative care clinic my wife works on. When you see the difference it makes to peoples lives who are otherwise in tremendous pain, you wouldn't begrudge a penny of the money that is spent.

Knowing you Gregg, i'm hoping that comment was fishing for a bite rather than your true feelings, but it was too serious a subject to not respond.
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:01 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #48
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considering the post he made after that one it wouldn't surprise me if he did mean it
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:02 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #49
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He's just playing devil's advocate, provoked an interesting discussion.
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:08 PM   The NHS Postcode lottery business Post #50
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If anyone's interested in this, they should read the report on the Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme that the OFT published before Easter - it's available on the OFT's website.
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