retired_assy22

Yeah, if you want to pay twice the amount you're currently paying for 50% of the things you buy on a daily basis then you're free to press for sanctions.

Sanctions don't work, I cannot think of a single instance where an abhorrent regime has been brought to its knees because of them. In recent history there's been Palestine and Iran and Hamas and Ahmadinejad are going strong, they punish innocent swathes of the population to no avail.

I'm not sure how outrageous regimes are of any detriment (assuming they're not about to drop several tonnes of nuclear weapons unprovoked, it's a different case then) to anyone except themselves.

retired_ks reddy

I don't buy any of those things. All I can think of is a hike of some 15-20% in the price of computer gear I buy, and as I spend no more than 300 euros a year on it I can live with that just fine.

Yep, sanctions rarely punish the governments, more usually destroying the middle classes who are tragically the main hope of getting a decent system of government in place. However, in China's case things are a little different - it's not sanctions to free their populace, rather sanctions to stop them from becoming the most powerful nation on the planet.

You might like to ask the lads in Chad whether China's support for Sudan is having any detrimental effects on their country?

retired_kimmymarlo

Surprise: it isn't. There's plenty of people professing some sort of religiousness, but no one in their right mind would call Bush, for example, religious. Those who call themselves religious are in reality ultra-conservative powermongers who hide under that semi-respectable guise. The US are a very good example of money undermining religion. No matter how 'religious', if there's money to be made, people and certainly the powerful ones, can swing their opinions around on the drop of a hat. </BLOCKQUOTE>hahahaha you have absolutely no clue

retired_princess160

AJ disagreeing for disagreements sake
wp doooode.

retired_princess160

Sath Efrica springs to mind. Anyway, these sanctions would have more impact if they wouldn't be dodged. A practice which is allowed by our oh so not corrupt governments just as trading with torture states is.

retired_assy22

I can divorce a state's economic prowess from whether they are morally reprehensible, one of them affects me and my country and the other doesn't.

Considering China is the largest source of imports for the EU, the chances that a few bits of computer gear is the only thing you buy that comes from China is terribly low.

retired_ks reddy

I did forget about noodles, yes.

But I reckon I could hack life without them.

retired_ks reddy

Er, Gul's an islamist. I don't believe he wants a secular Turkey, and neither do the army. </BLOCKQUOTE>

“Secularism is a precondition for social peace as much as it is a liberating model for different lifestyles,” he said. “I will embrace all our citizens without any bias.”

And I agree with him completely. I don't see any correlation in women being allowed to enter universities with headscarfs on or any other overt display of piety and the fundamental separation of church and state being endangered. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear. Here's the draft constitution they want.

"The current constitution in Turkey obliges the government to ensure equality for all - a clause that women's groups fought hard to include.

The new draft removes that, describing women instead as a vulnerable group in need of special protection"

Same sort of thing the Iranian constitution says on women. Have you got there now?

retired_assy22

I don't see any explicit reference to them having to acquiesce with Islamic law?

retired_ks reddy

You said it was about headscarfs, and that there is no indication Turkey would be sliding back into religious rule.

There you are, it's not just about headscarfs - it's about removing gender equality and replacing it with women being regarded as vulnerable and needing the protection of men. As in islamic law.