Aung San Suu Kyi- yea or nay?

retired_ks reddy · 09-29-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedefiningForm:

“Secularism is a precondition for social peace as much as it is a liberating model for different lifestyles,” he said. “I will embrace all our citizens without any bias.”

And I agree with him completely. I don't see any correlation in women being allowed to enter universities with headscarfs on or any other overt display of piety and the fundamental separation of church and state being endangered.

As DJ said, he's a liar. The headscarf ban was part of efforts to stop international islamism getting a grip in Turkey. As can be seen in all their neighbours to the south and east it's worth trying whatever you can to stop them getting that grip.

I thought they were lifting the ban now anyway?

retired_ks reddy · 09-29-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedefiningForm:

As far as I can see it, it's not so much secular traditions being the crux of the issue in this case as the army generals being afraid that their dominance would be eroded by these entirely new class of adept politicians instead of the usual ruling order which they were used to.

I honestly don't see how anyone can defend nondemocracy with more nondemocracy.

They're not. They're defending democracy with nondemocracy.

retired_assy22 · 09-29-2007, 10:49 AM

Yeah, that was my mistake there.

Any state that stops me from doing what I want to do (in this completely benign, say I were a Muslim woman who wanted nothing more than to walk in and out of buildings with my hijab on) is detestable. That's not a tacit approval of religion, it's letting people do what the **** they want to do.

retired_little.splash · 09-29-2007, 10:52 AM

nay

retired_ks reddy · 09-29-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedefiningForm:
Yeah, that was my mistake there.

Any state that stops me from doing what I want to do (in this completely benign, say I were a Muslim woman who wanted nothing more than to walk in and out of buildings with my hijab on) is detestable. That's not a tacit approval of religion, it's letting people do what the **** they want to do.

I'd love to agree but the facts bear out their concerns. More headscarves isn't just a symptom of islamism, it's a cause too. Women who do not want to cover up lose their freedom to do so, and that's detestable too.

retired_princess160 · 09-29-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
They're defending democracy with nondemocracy.

Which usually is a road to disaster, but the Turkish army simply have a good track record in this respect. They've taken over several times, but always given up power to reinstate democracy. Turkey is one of those few countries that are verging upon becoming a modern state by getting the right socio-economical stimuli (future EU membership for example, as well as migration of their citizens into the EU). It would be folly to endanger that trend by falsely tolerating detrimental religious influence.

retired_ks reddy · 09-29-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ:

Which usually is a road to disaster, but the Turkish army simply have a good track record in this respect. They've taken over several times, but always given up power to reinstate democracy. Turkey is one of those few countries that are verging upon becoming a modern state by getting the right socio-economical stimuli (future EU membership for example, as well as migration of their citizens into the EU). It would be folly to endanger that trend by falsely tolerating detrimental religious influence.

Ah yes, once they're rich like we are they'll see that the secularists were right all along? Sadly, I doubt it. EU membership is hardly going to make the army relax, though EU laws may force it to relax. And that would be a very bad thing.

retired_little.splash · 09-29-2007, 11:43 AM

future EU membership?
ain't gonna happen in my lifetime

retired_princess160 · 09-29-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
future EU membership?
ain't gonna happen in my lifetime

Just like Belgium splitting up, eh?

retired_princess160 · 09-29-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
Ah yes, once they're rich like we are they'll see that the secularists were right all along? Sadly, I doubt it. EU membership is hardly going to make the army relax, though EU laws may force it to relax. And that would be a very bad thing.

You know how it works with religion. Once the majority of people have something material to care about, they can't be arsed to go to church. At that point, the role of the army in containing the relis becomes unimportant or superfluous.

Aung San Suu Kyi- yea or nay?

Grab a beer, sit back and relax.

Aung San Suu Kyi- yea or nay?