retired_the gizmo

yeah, that's easily the most troubling quote in the article. charitably, I guess you could say he meant differences in teaching methods and effective communication but it came out in typical obtuse, clipped science talk.

retired_princesspouty

It's one of the reasons why I question this report. If you believe that intelligence is affected by upbringing, environment etc to even a smallish degree, then testing people on the grounds of their race becomes virtually impossible.

The only thing you can summise is that racial groups within certain communities exhibit tendencies for lower intelligence.

If you're a Naturist... then you can make a possible link. But like Doog, I'm not...

retired_the gizmo

I'm guessing his scientific rigor is such that he didn't just pick up some prep school kid in greenwich and one of 50's friends and try to draw comparisons.

attempts would have to be made to make upbringing, environment, social class and other factors as close to null as possible or else what's the point?

retired_princesspouty

Prescribing to either nature or nurture doesn't mean you think the two are mutually exclusive, otherwise it's like declaring that you're an introvert and having to be recluse, or an extrovert and be a wild party animal.

Stating a preference to nature or nurture declares where you think the dominance lies.

retired_princesspouty

How would you even start to go about doing that?

retired_the gizmo

what if you believe the dominance manifests itself differently in every person?

retired_kimmymarlo

the answer is nurture, btw.

retired_princesspouty

So you think that some people have their intelligence defined by their genetics in the main, but others don't and their upbringing and environment are dominant.

Nah - I don't see that at all.

Ventil

You like going nude on holiday....?

Anyway as Daaaave has said, one would guess that this prognosis is on the back of a pretty extensive research period.

Nurture has a fair amount of basis (I refer you to education thing about stupid posh kids) but you can only educate up to a certain IQ/ level.

You could also point to incidents such as the brain drain, where educated/ intelligent Africans have had to leave to ensure a better level of education/ working prospects.
And conversely, although I think this is a more westernised situation, the lesser educated (denser) classes repopulating quicker due to lack of education/ societal practices.

retired_the gizmo

How would you even start to go about doing that? </BLOCKQUOTE>

don't ask me, I'm not a scientist. I just work with them. but pulling kids out of similar schools, giving both them and their parents extensive interviews and access to records, possibly even videotaping daily life for background information would be a start.


for example, a close friend of mine in school was an adopted korean kid. lived on the same street, parents roughly made the same money and we spent so much time at each other's places the 4 parents were like surrogates to the two of us. at school, we attended the same classes, basically ate the same lunches and played the same sports. I would say that's a good basis to draw comparisons. me and him for race, him and other koreans for "nurture".