retired_ks reddy

Love and tolerance my arse. You're telling me never preached those following the pagan gods were destined for hell? Rubbish. And again, why on getting a christian as empire did they promptly persecute everyone non christian? Revenge? Is that a christian virtue too?

retired_ks reddy

The bible, tbh.

retired_zersmiller

Bert, I'll try to quote all your posts in one post, to make it all a bit clearer. I would appreciate it if you would do the same next time.

So he was jewish at the time, was he? Odd thing for a christian to say. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus has always been jewish. Jesus held the Old Testament/Tenach as the word of God, he quoted a lot from it too. The Tenach (Nevi'im) even predicted Jesus' coming.
Christianity (following Christ) and Judaism split very fast though, because the jews that followed christ becamse Christians, and the jews that refused Christ still were jewish.

Jesus was jewish, so the Jerusalem temple can't be considered a 'heathen' temple. Jesus prayed there to the same God as jews did.
He didn't 'ravage' the temple because it was 'heathen', but because his beloved temple was commercialized and was more like a 'robbers' den' than a 'house of prayer', as Jesus puts it. Jesus actually quotes the Old-Testament prophet Jeremiah here.

So it's incorrect to say that Jesus rampaged through a 'heathen temple'.

Thankyou. It was indeed a major crime. Still is to this day. Bit more than refusing to bow to idols, ain't it? Why do you think other christians would never do the same? </BLOCKQUOTE>

You're changing the subject here from heathen to jewish temples.
I'm not sure if christians rampaged through 'Jewish temples', it don't seem likely. Just as unlikely as them rampaging through heathen temples. I never heard any story of early christians doing that. You probably never did either, all you do is just 'assume things'. Even if those things don't correspond with history.

All four of your points there are completely wrong. </BLOCKQUOTE>

All four points are completely right.

Facts?
You're unhistorical "common-sense" are facts? Give me a break.


It's your motto, isn't it?

If it is, it must be easy to find a source who approves of this "common knowledge".

Hence christians were disloyal to the empire. Subversives. A danger. See? </BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't ask if they were subversive in your eyes.
I asked if not bowing down to the emperor, but still paying taxes, made them intolerant or hateful in your eyes. Does it?

Because they refused to show loyalty to the empire. Can't you get that though your thick skull? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Now you claim that is the reason they were persecuted?

Oh, they might have. But does warning somebody make you unloving or intolerant? You only warn people you care for right?

[quote]Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
Not at all... but you keep viewing the persecuted Christians in the first centuries and the semi-Christians in power after the 4th century as one.

[quote]Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
The bible, tbh. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope.

retired_suppamom

All four of your points there are completely wrong. As the two post above make clear. So why are you just repeating your ridiculous mantra in the face of the facts? </BLOCKQUOTE>
That's his main tactic tbh.

Repeating the same crap over and over.

retired_suppamom

I love how you <STRIKE>answer</STRIKE> ignore my questions.

What initial assertion? </BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude, if you're going to link to a bunch of Christian websites as sources, completely ignore what I say and repeat your tedious bloody mantra, then yes, I'm going to ignore you.

Bye.

retired_zersmiller

The authenticity of Josephus' writings being disputed.

Ditto for Tacitus. </BLOCKQUOTE>

One quote from Josephus is highly debatable yes. Although I think, among many others, he did write about Jesus there, but most likely not that extensive yes.
The other quote however is recieved as authentic by most scholars.

There are debates about the authenticity of the Tacitus quote yes. Although it's not much likely that Christians made up that part, since it's not that positive about Christ and Christians as Josephus was.

But hey, at least Christ was mentioned by historians, in contrary to what your quote claimed.

This had me confused for a couple of minutes, how can someone say this?

Until I came at the Tacitus Wikipedia Page.
You dug your own grave here Rvd, this shows it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about and you only quote from other websites, including Wikipedia apparently.

Read properly, this is what Wiki said:
"Tertullian, Lactantius, Sulpicius Severus, Eusebius and Augustine of Hippo make no reference to Tacitus when discussing Christian persecution by Nero."

Tertullian was a christian and probably talked a lot about the death of Christ.
Lactanius was christian too and also wrote about the death of Christ.
Eusebius was a bisschop ffs. Must have written a lot about the death of Christ.
Augustine is one of the most important people in Christian history, talked about the death of Christ plenty of times

Come on now rvd... what the heck are you talking about?

I assume you never read any books about this at all, in contrary to what you claimed, otherwise you would have known Tertullian, Eusebius and ffs. Augustine.

If he really did all that stuff he was alleged to have done, then I think they might have been interested. </BLOCKQUOTE>

They might have, but they probably didn't believe that stuff, because they never saw it 'first-hand' and/or met the apostles.

Your reputable source being? </BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article.../Philo-Judaeus
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/people/philo.htm

And there's more...

Gamaliel didn't perform miracles or rise from the dead. Allegedly. </BLOCKQUOTE>

To an orthodox jew someone like Gamaliel was of much more importance than a jewish rabbi who claimed to be the messiah.

If you hold the 'silence is proof' argument, as used by the source you quoted, you must conclude that Gamaliel never existed. So wrong, he was one of leaders of the Sanhedrin.

There are plenty of reasons. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah... he most likely missed the hype.

</BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a lot. Including about 20 ancient books from the first century who had more manuscripts than any other ancient scripture in history. You can read them all online.

Ventil

I'm a little bemused by the attitude of certain people in here.
One person's belief is just that.
If it is at odds with yours, so be it, but what gives you the right to question his?

Are you somehow superior?
If you are, I'd really like to know how your life is so improved by not following a god or belief.

retired_zersmiller

I love how you <STRIKE>answer</STRIKE> ignore my questions.

What initial assertion? </BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude, if you're going to link to a bunch of Christian websites as sources, completely ignore what I say and repeat your tedious bloody mantra, then yes, I'm going to ignore you.

Bye. </BLOCKQUOTE>

FFS. I barely linked to Christian websites, stop making that claim.
I LINKED TO EGYPTOLOGY WEBSITES, WHICH YOU NEVER DID

And to accuse me of ignoring what you said is about the most hypocritical thing I've ever said on here.
But if you keep ignoring EVERYTHING I said, and everything I ask you, we might as well quit this debate. You're a useless debater..

If you want to believe in all that bullsh*t, do it. I can't believe you still do that after I exposed it for what is in my last post: CRAP.
But you follow Massey, the dead poet with a special interest for Egypt. I follow the far majority of contemporary Egyptologists.

But please, feel free to believe in your lies.

Have fun.

retired_zersmiller

You know, I wouldn't have to repeat things so much if you would have stopped ignoring half my post?

retired_ks reddy

Rubbish. Jesus was trying to destroy the established religion and convert the adherents to what he saw as righteous. Plenty of religions think they pray to the same god, but in actual fact it's just another form of trying to claim your god is bigger.