retired_breakbred101

The content of it is deemed to be mostly the same by the scrutiny committes. Have you read it? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't matter how similar it is, if the "meat" that would require a referendum is removed/red-lined. </BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course it should matter!? Well, in my opinion, anyway.

retired_lyriclemelodee

Certainly. It'd lose by a landslide. Mostly because people have little confidence in the EU rather than knowing anything about the constitution.

But tbf, it's the EU that's to blame for that. </BLOCKQUOTE>
And too many people have "little Englander" attitudes and can't see beyond that. It's not that they lack confidence, it's just that they're ignorant of what's going on.

The people I think you're talking about are those who do know a bit about the EU, but they are in a minority imo.

I agree with imps. I think there's a lot wrong with the way the EU is currently organised and run... but we should still be moving towards it. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree with that too. I take a rather Burkean view on this in that I'm not convinced it's our generation's 'right' to just remove ourselves from a union that does benefit us. Evolution, not revolution and all that. Let's work to improve what has the potential to be a pretty effective organisation rather than just throw it out because of what are temporary institutional issues that can be solved. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that with regards to French Revolution?

Whatever you think of EU bit harsh to compare it with the twatish 'anicen regime'... viva la revolution.

retired_princesspouty

I don't think he meant Revolution in that sense Didier.

Ventil

yeah but they'd then be European Farmers and European Fishermen... which sounds so much nicer doesn't it?
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm!

Fitness Matt

David cameron has 99% the same DNA as a chimpanzee.

Fitness Matt

An imaginative PM would call a referendum on the EC, but would make it a vote on membership of the Community as a whole and not about the new Treaty.

Because Cameron would then have to turn round and tell people to vote 'Yes'.

And the 'Yes' vote would win.

retired_ks reddy

The Spanish fishermen aren't dicking the UK over anymore. We fished our own waters clean, then we fished your waters clean, but it's all a-okay as now we're fishing Canada's waters clean and they're not EU.

retired_ks reddy

The EU, you mean? And I'm not so sure it would win.

retired_lyriclemelodee

Oh no I wasn't picking up on the word revolution, just that he mentioned 'burkean' views - which I assumed was a reference to Edmund Burke - who is most known for his work on the French Revolution. Which is why I made the comparison. Did he mean a different Burke though?

Or are you saying he did mean Burke, and I'm talking rubbish anyway. If so I don't really agree, because rankean a nalogy would see 'ancien regime' = EU = "potential to be a pretty effective organisation" - which when speaking about the ancien regime, is just ******** - and so don't really see how Ranke is relavent. Unless Burke actually did loads of philosophy outside of French Revolution, which is what he meant, in which case I should shut up

retired_breakbred101

I'm not so sure it would...