Ventil

Bastards. I yearn for the days of the tories who would never dream of doing such a thing. </BLOCKQUOTE>

But they ruled the world in those days and could away with it.

retired_breakbred101

Doubt it. I think people want a referendum, but the don't particularly trust any of the parties to allow them one. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I really think that the Conservatives would...

retired_princesspouty

I don't want a referendum as I don't trust the majority of the British public to bother to find out what they are actually voting on.

How authoritarian of me.

retired_ks reddy

Just having a constitution implies a loss of sovereignty from the UK point of view.

retired_breakbred101

Bill Cash puts down EDM on EU Treaty
"That this House notes that the impartial European Scrutiny Committee concluded that the Reform Treaty is substantially equivalent to the original Constitutional Treaty; that the Government Manifesto promised a Referendum on the original treaty; that the Conservative Party voted against it in principle on the Second Reading of the Bill implementing that Treaty; that the Prime Minister said that he will reject the Reform Treaty if the Government's Red Lines are not guaranteed on 18th October, but (following the European Scrutiny Committee examination of the Foreign Secretary on 16th October) that these Red Lines do not satisfy UK vital national interests and that the European Court of Justice will determine these matters, not this House; that, contrary to the statements of the Foreign Secretary, parliamentary democracy is enhanced when this House, as the Labour Government in 1975, hands back a Referendum by Act of Parliament to the voters who elect Members of this House; that 27 million voters have been denied a Referendum on any European Question since 1975; that over 70 per cent. of the voters want a Referendum but that the reasons have to be fully explained; that the Reform Treaty is a consolidation of the existing treaties into a merger of the European Community into a European Union involving substantial, fundamental, constitutional and structural change by the Government's own criteria for a Referendum; and insists that the Prime Minister rejects the Reform Treaty on 18th October and holds a Referendum before or after ratification."



My MP \o/

retired_ks reddy

Certainly. It'd lose by a landslide. Mostly because people have little confidence in the EU rather than knowing anything about the constitution.

But tbf, it's the EU that's to blame for that.

retired_lyriclemelodee

Gah one point I really want to make - when David Cameron droans on about "The Spanish (?) PM says it's 99% similar, the creator of the constitution says its 95% similar etc etc" - being so opportunistic - it might be FOR THEM, but not for the UK, because we have quite a few significant opt-outs.

retired_breakbred101

But they have some too...

retired_princesspouty

Certainly. It'd lose by a landslide. Mostly because people have little confidence in the EU rather than knowing anything about the constitution.

But tbf, it's the EU that's to blame for that. </BLOCKQUOTE>
And too many people have "little Englander" attitudes and can't see beyond that. It's not that they lack confidence, it's just that they're ignorant of what's going on.

The people I think you're talking about are those who do know a bit about the EU, but they are in a minority imo.

I agree with imps. I think there's a lot wrong with the way the EU is currently organised and run... but we should still be moving towards it.

retired_navy0614

There should not be a referendum, it's not the same as the consitution that the manifesto pledge was made on. And the amending treaty is a good thing.

Anyway, you can't have it both ways - apparently Blair was architect of the manifesto, said was going to serve a full term etc. Brown should have an election as he has no mandate.

So what is it? Either Brown is fine and he doesn't need an election to get a mandate, or he does need an election as he lacks a mandate and can do whatever he wants and swivel to the manifesto.