[retired_bliss123]

what gregg said basically, seeing as we've just had this conversation on msn. we're playing style because we won the wc with it last year, but we are not catering for the future of english rugby by promoting the play of our most promising players

[retired_lynchtwn022]

Let's face it.. it doesn't matter HOW you play the game, its whether you win it.
Obviously every England fan would love to see flowing passing and running moves from the backs resulting in a first or second phase try, but if the forward game is working for them (albeit against a probably USA-standard opposition today) then why not keep it? England's problem these last four years has been an abundance of inconsistency, not only in results but also in balance and playing style. I think, though I invite you to prove me wrong, that the return of a fully fit (touches wood) Wilkinson has really restored some of the balance that we saw in 2003. Granted, it will be a miracle if England retain the trophy, but on today's performance (and NOT necessarily the result) from what's probably a little over half the team that will start the WC, I'm sure many bookies will start shortening their odds and South Africa will starting to be worrying more at the gap that Spies will leave when it comes to the group game. A powerful and try-scoring English pack is something to be VERY afraid of, especially when you take into account the back line that's there if needed, with the likes of Robinson and (hopefully) Hipkiss and Tait.

[retired_bliss123]

the point is we've playing the same way since we won the last the world cup, but we've won bugger all since then...it's a system that isn't working.

[retired_jabda]

Mindless English optimism \o/

You will get second in your group, eliminated in the quarters.

[retired_bliss123]

wfs

[retired_lynchtwn022]

Originally posted by James M:
the point is we've playing the same way since we won the last the world cup, but we've won bugger all since then...it's a system that isn't working.

Surely today has proved this theory wrong?
Granted, put NZ 1st XV out there instead and would've been a different story, but today was extremely encouraging. Either that, or Wales have a truly appalling second string.
I think Ashton has done well in tweaking it so that it DOES work, at least to some extent. Under Robinson it only ever saw flashes, such as actually coming close to NZ in an Autumn international, but it seems to me Ashton knows very well what he's wanting to do, and today was a big step forward to achieving that.

[retired_kevh16]

I never said I was excited by this result. I was just saying that as traditionally our forwards have been our strength but in recent years we have fallen behind other teams in having forwards that can dominate to such an extent that the backs are there for finishing as much as anything else.

I do get the feeling though that Ashton is scared of attempting to play a flowing attacking style of rugby, mainly because he isn't confident enough in our backs currently to pull it off. If you are in charge of the all backs where the national industry seems to be producing jazzy backs then thats fine. Whereas for England the options have been severly limited for several years. To the extent that we've had to recall Jason Robinson (amazing though he is) despite the fact that his club career is effectively finished.

[retired_lynchtwn022]

Originally posted by finneys13:
Mindless English optimism \o/

You will get second in your group, eliminated in the quarters.

Yea I know, but I for one HAVE been worried that Samoa will trounce us.

[retired_jabda]

Would be fantastic if they did :cool;

Goodnight people.

[retired_bliss123]

Originally posted by The Best In The World (TBITW):
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by James M:
the point is we've playing the same way since we won the last the world cup, but we've won bugger all since then...it's a system that isn't working.

Surely today has proved this theory wrong?
Granted, put NZ 1st XV out there instead and would've been a different story, but today was extremely encouraging. Either that, or Wales have a truly appalling second string.
I think Ashton has done well in tweaking it so that it DOES work, at least to some extent. Under Robinson it only ever saw flashes, such as actually coming close to NZ in an Autumn international, but it seems to me Ashton knows very well what he's wanting to do, and today was a big step forward to achieving that. </BLOCKQUOTE>

no, today just fuelled the theory that it might work. we were not playing an international class team today, so it's a completely pointless exercise. it's like england beating san marino 9-0 with lampard and gerrard in the middle and deciding "ah well, clearly that combination works despite us being **** with them playing together for the past 3 years". if the system worked we'd have been competitive for the last 4 6 nations as well as in all the test matches, but we haven't been at all. every now and then we'll win with the system, but that's not the consistency required to win an international competition