[retired_bernadette downing]

Originally posted by R4M:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">---------Xavi/Iniesta----Touremessi------------Kaka------------Eto'o-----------------Henry</pre>

Looks a lot better tbh.

[retired_kimmymarlo]

I think Ronaldinho has something to prove this campaign, so I wouldn't slate him just yet...

[retired_jessicadon]

You have to feel a little sorry for RVN. Finally escapes the league where he was forever in Henry's shadow and he follows him.

[retired_kimmymarlo]

Originally posted by Ratinho:
You have to feel a little sorry for RVN. Finally escapes the league where he was forever in Henry's shadow and he follows him.

he's had his year of glory.

cannot wait to see Henry trot out in the Barcelona shirt, I will probably urinate all over myself.

[retired_mystikalpharie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>Txiki is the puppet of Cruyff. In fact Cruyff didn’t supported Bassat (2000) or Laporta (2003), he supported his puppet. Johan loves to control everything (Barça, Holland, Holland U21) but then he blames the others.

I don't deny cruyff's ascendancy over barcelona, as I said before.

However if Cruyff had the power you say he has,do you think he would've allowed Ronaldinho's training "vacations"?. Deco's standing against Rijkaad because he didn't want a christmas stage to do intense work on fitness?.

All the atrocious things that have happened this year would've never happened with a strong guide when the players started giving more importance to their own "good" instead of the team's. A strong punch on the desk, a good couple of yells at the right moment and all the stupidity of this year gone.

Cruyff would've done it. And had he had the power you said, he would've got another one to do it in his name...but that has never happened. So he must have much less power than you think, isn't it? </BLOCKQUOTE>

That’s the locker room.

I’m talking about tactics. Who picked Rijkaard? And Van Basten? (ask the Dutch of the forum), who tried to chance the tactic of Holland U21 in the Euro?

<BLOCKQUOTE>We have a Dutch coach, we play Dutch football. That’s the influence of Cruyff.

I can't agree with this. Not this year but the previous 2 seasons Barcelona style was dutch when on the offense. When in the deffense the pressure system put on by rijkaard reminded me of the good times of Milan. half of the balls stolen by barcelona were at the rival team's own side of the yard. And that was achieved by a smart pressure setup.

on another note, barcelona doesn't play with true wingers, as dutch teams always do. Barça plays with players on the wings cutting towards the middle when possible. Not really like dutch football tbh.

So I'd say it's italo-dutch...if you get my drift.

Anyway the dutch influence is something that comes from much, much before Cruyff's tenure as a manager. It comes from the time when Cruyff was a player at Barcelona. In fact the thing is that by tradition Barcelona plays (or intends to) play a beautiful, offensive kind of football that mixes well with the dutch theories and tactics. I think its not that Barcelona plays dutch-like football...I think that barcelona plays BARCELONA football, and it happens to be a similar concept to that of the dutch </BLOCKQUOTE>

Cruyff, the footballer, was an icon, a legend, but Cruyff the manager is the most influential person in our history. We didn’t have a style before the dream team and now we have a style, an evolution, without natural wingers, ok, but our style is the Ajax style.

Ajax has a striker, Babel, playing on left. The Ajax style is about attacking/attractive football, not about two natural wingers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>1994 and 1995
Many problems in the locker room and Cruyff WAS the manager.

true in 1994/95 season. Not true in 93/94 (the Laudrup affair was a whole world in it's own and was a singular problem, not a locker room problem), and in the 95/96 was negligible because Cruyff had to fight off nuñez irresistible desire to kick him off barcelona. Wich was easier to say than to do with one hand while keeping the locker room united with the other. </BLOCKQUOTE>

And the CL final and our attitude? At least Rijkaard has never disrespect a team.

<BLOCKQUOTE>Beckham had a pre-contract with Real Madrid and Laporta knew it. He only agreed terms with Man U to win votes as he was the third/forth candidate. Beckham was part of his strategy.

Rossell said once that he talked with Ronaldinho BEFORE the elections. He offered him a place at Barça BEFORE the elections and Ronaldinho accepted.

it doesn't make a difference. Ronaldinho was signed without Rijkaard asking for him , and Frank had problems fitting him within the team because he simply didn't know where to put him on until he hit the 4-3-3 wonder - idea. And that was what I was saying </BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a planning, you have a tactic and you try to fill the positions. They wanted to play 4-2-3-1 and Ronaldinho was the AMC of that team. Overmars, GarcÃ*a, Quaresma and Luis Enrique were the winger and Kluivert and Saviola the strikers, two players per position.

Rijkaard knew where to put him but it didn’t work. It’s completely different from not knowing where to play him.

<BLOCKQUOTE>Ronaldinho was signed because he was a high profile and a Nike player but since day one (v Milan in US) he played as AMC and we played 4-2-3-1. We had a coach, a sporting director, a general manger but no tactic?

Well we had a coach, a sporting director, a general manager...and a wrong tactic. the first round of the league is enough proof. As soon as the system was switched to a 4-3-3 Barcelona shined. And with dinho playing up on the left. Not at the middle. </BLOCKQUOTE>

We had a tactic and Ronaldinho was signed to be the AMC. It didn’t work, we signed Davids and we started playing 4-3-3.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
That’s the past, It’s like rating Maradona now from what he did in 1986.

you said Ronaldinho was crap on his first season at barcelona.

I replied with arguments on why that isn't true . He was the best, way past any other that season (the one coming closer was Xavi, that was the year he -really- revealed himself too). [quote]

No, I didn’t say so.
punkskamonkey said: Ronaldinho has been fairly poor recently. You replied him and I replied you. Was, because the season is over.


[QUOTE]

Ronaldinho is a bad professional and wasn’t the player of the year at Barça. Eto’o, Iniesta or Messi were clearly better than him.

I guess you're talking about his second season in barcelona (and the first half of the third) where he won the golden ball.

I can't agree, yovan. I know Eto'o was sublime, but I had never seen a player so much over the rest of those surrounding him since I saw maradona playing (and instantly became a Barça fan for life). He simply wasn't of this world. the exhibition at the Bernabeu is not at the reach of the mere mortal, mate.

I agree he's had a bad attitude last 18 months. But he single handedly accepted that all the blame of his bad fitness this season is his, and because of his bad training work. And he has promised to change that. and he has agreed to comply with the new internal regulations of the club.

which means he has learned the lesson. If this year "bad" performance (I insist, I can't seriously think he has had such a bad performance with his numbers of this season, tho I know he has beed BAD...ironic but true) serves for him to learn the lesson and train as he should do for the next seasons to come, its a welcome thing.

I think he's sincere in his promises. Time will tell. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m talking about this season, mainly because I don’t care about the past.

<BLOCKQUOTE> He is lucky he has a coach like Rijkkard because in another team he wouldn’t have played a single minute.

In another team he would have played as much as in barcelona. The source of the problem is as much ronaldinho's relaxed attitude towards training, as Rijkaard (and all the technical staff's) for allowing him such an attitude. In another team he would've never been allowed to train as little and as bad as he has trained at barcelona last 18 months. And that happened because Rijkaard let it happen: before that he trained as much and as good as the rest of the players at barcelona, and had been in the team for 2 years playing like a god. </BLOCKQUOTE>

At Real Madrid with Capello he would have played less than Casssano.

Do you know that Ronaldinho is an adult? It’s like blaming your teacher or you father for being a little lazy ****.

<BLOCKQUOTE> Messi, Márquez, Maxi, Deco or Motta are friends of Ronnie. Eto’o isn’t.

close relative with good relations. Call it whatever you want it to call it, but for sure they don't have the bad attitude AS or MARCA wants us to believe. </BLOCKQUOTE>

They aren’t enemies as I said but at work there are groups and Barça players aren’t different.

My source is Olé (the Argentinean newspaper). There was an article about Messi. They were with Messi a week in Barcelona and they never mentioned Eto’o. They mentioned Zabaleta from Espanyol and the players I named above and said that Ustari and Messi are friends and so on.

The other group is the group of the Catalan players, Puyol, Jorquera, Xavi (also Tamudo and De la Peña from Espanyol).

Sylvinho and Messi are friends for example, although Sylvinho is not part of their.

Gerard and Luque are friends of Eto’o, the others? If you have a source (not the polite, he is my friend Ronnie says all the time about ALL the players).

[retired_GodsMyWitness]

wow, that was a massive quote...

[retired_GodsMyWitness]

But anyhow, if Barca fields 4 pure attacking players on at once it's not going to work. Somebody has to defend. Eto'o and Ronaldinho don't know how to, Messi way too small and he should be running at defenders not after them.

Best thing Barca should do is simply rotate 4 players over the 3 attacking position. That way they can hold possession in midfield and not sacrifice defense, which was a weak point for Barca last season.

[retired_hvporter]

Originally posted by Omnislash:
But anyhow, if Barca fields 4 pure attacking players on at once it's not going to work. Somebody has to defend. Eto'o and Ronaldinho don't know how to, Messi way too small and he should be running at defenders not after them.

Best thing Barca should do is simply rotate 4 players over the 3 attacking position. That way they can hold possession in midfield and not sacrifice defense, which was a weak point for Barca last season.

Ah but they will have six defenders on the pitch, as Yovan shot me down with yesterday when I made the same point.

If Barcelona are going to succeed next season, they do need some sort semblance of balance.

[trotamundos]

Quite a brilliant thread this. Am awaiting the prize clown that every major club on this board seems to have.

I know it's been mentioned a bit on the last page, but what are the liklihoods of Barca signing a GK to really challenge Valdes? I guess it's kinda rare that a side has two really good keepers, and I know he has had some really good moments this season. But if most other areas of the team are going to have a large amount of competition for places, surely they should exert some pressure on him as well?

[retired_ietus]

So far this thread has been better than any other club thread. A lot of decent posters offering up their opinions with sound arguments to back them up.

Must say I agree with the 4 up front being unbalanced. Sure they can go the way of not caring about conceding but just outscoring the opposition but I really don't think that's the solution. The other signings mentioned (Chivu, Abidal) also seem pretty exciting.