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Old 06-25-2007, 03:24 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #101
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Ruud > Barcelona/Henry
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:25 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by R4M:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by yovan:
R4M

The system won’t change because Johan Cruyff is the “official” advisor of the club

Yovan, I don't know where are you from, I take you aren't spanish if you say that.

Cruyff is a HUGE influence in anything that goes in at FC Barcelona. Only a fool would deny that.

But he doesn't have a call, at all on what ,or how are, things to be done.

Had him had such a voice and power, this disgraceful season would've never happened, for he has been warning about what has just happened for months. And noone paid him attention (and if anyone did, its damned sure,whoever he is, did nothing to solve the things). </BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m from Spain.

Txiki is the puppet of Cruyff. In fact Cruyff didn’t supported Bassat (2000) or Laporta (2003), he supported his puppet. Johan loves to control everything (Barça, Holland, Holland U21) but then he blames the others.

We have a Dutch coach, we play Dutch football. That’s the influence of Cruyff.

1994 and 1995
Many problems in the locker room and Cruyff WAS the manager.



Quote:
but just remember one thing, we signed Ronaldinho to play in the middle (AMC), behind the striker and the wingers. The team (a weaker one) was underperforming and we changed the formation (from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3).
In all fairness, Yovan, when Ronaldinho was signed noone knew where he would play. Not even Rijkaard, for he never asked for him in the first place. Ronaldinho was a last-resort signing from Laporta, for he had promised in the election run to bring Beckham and Beckham signed for Real Madrid. He needed a huge signing so people would forget about beckham and he (and Rosell) single-handedly brought Ronaldinho.

Some months into Rijkaard's first season, he reportedly said he had no idea where to put ronaldinho in his team, for he fit nowhere. I don't know if it was because Rijkaard knowledge of the game, by sheer luck or by divine providence he tried the 4-3-3 out of pure desperation (he was about to be kicked at the time) ,and the system, with Ronaldinho in the left wing won him 16 matches in a row in the league. From there onwards it was a military march.


Truth be told, Ronaldinho can play wherever you want him to play, as long as it is in an AM or forward position. In the center or in the wings, if he's fit, he will do wonders. But in my own opinion where he is most dangerous for Barcelona's playstile is where he plays: in the left cutting towards the middle. That's the place where he can best exploit both his pace and acceleration (when fit), his magnificent vision and great mid-range shot.

In the middle he's great because of his milimeter-accurate passes and amazing vision, but I still think he's better at the wing...

of course, when phisically fit. [/QUOTE]

Beckham had a pre-contract with Real Madrid and Laporta knew it. He only agreed terms with Man U to win votes as he was the third/forth candidate. Beckham was part of his strategy.

Rossell said once that he talked with Ronaldinho BEFORE the elections. He offered him a place at Barça BEFORE the elections and Ronaldinho accepted.

Ronaldinho was signed because he was a high profile and a Nike player but since day one (v Milan in US) he played as AMC and we played 4-2-3-1. We had a coach, a sporting director, a general manger but no tactic?


Quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Ronaldinho was crap, a joke, a disgrace. THAT Ronaldinho isn’t not close to Eto’o, Messi and Henry.
with all due respect, since ronaldinho scored his amazing goal versus Sevilla (after leaving two defenders on the dust in a 40m race at full pace and shotting a 35meter missile that hit the bar and went in like a thunder), onwards, he was pure class. In fact, his class and quality was the ONLY and ONE thing saving barcelona's face in that first round of the spanish league, even while Rijkaard had problems finding the best spot for him in his team.

If you recall the times, you might remember when he got injured for 2-3 months. He lost, between others, the Camp Nou match against Barcelona. The team, at the time was a disgrace. Ronaldinho was not. Certainly was not the ronaldinho we saw next two seasons in a row, but he was simply impressive.

And then in the 4-3-3 system he simply set the Spanish league ablaze. Noone talked about anything else. I know what I'm talking about...in my old laptop I had almost every match compilation posted in the ronaldiweb.com website, and I can tell you, in EACH and EVERY of the matches ronaldinho was pure class.

He won the FIFA World Player after his 1st season in Barcelona, yovan. And got Bronze ball, winning NO TITLES. If that says nothing about his tremendous performance in his first season, nothing will. </BLOCKQUOTE>

That’s the past, It’s like rating Maradona now from what he did in 1986. Ronaldinho is a bad professional and wasn’t the player of the year at Barça. Eto’o, Iniesta or Messi were clearly better than him. He is lucky he has a coach like Rijkkard because in another team he wouldn’t have played a single minute.


Quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Ronaldinho and Eto’o aren’t friends (it doesn’t make them enemies). Eto’o only had a friend at Barça and it was Gerard.
depends on what you call friend. They aren't the closest buddies in the world for sure. But Ronaldinho and Eto'o are buddies and have a pretty good relationship. With storms now and then, but thats what both say and that's what it seems each time they are seen together, may it be on the pitch or in a training session. So either they are actually friends, or they both deserve an Oscar for the best performance. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Messi, Márquez, Maxi, Deco or Motta are friends of Ronnie. Eto’o isn’t.



Quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>PS: Henry is NOT Larsson. He signed for Barça to play, not to be the 4th forward.
He won't be Larsson. Larsson played relatively little. Henry will get a lot of time. But won't be a first team player such as Ronaldinho and (initially) eto'o are. Ronaldinho is definitely not going to the bench ,ever, I can guarantee you that, and being Eto'o as he is, if he is "benched" with some regularity we will have a storm noone wants at Barcelona.

So Messi/Henry will be the deal. Now and then will be Eto'o/Henry. But ronaldinho is not losing his first team spot, that's for sure, and Eto'o's not going to the bench for many matches, that's ALSO for sure, unless Rijkaard wants to shoot his own feet. And I bet he doesn't want to.
</BLOCKQUOTE> [/QUOTE]

Henry is one of the greatest European players ever and he will start (if fit) on match day 1. Wanna bet?
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:27 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Jordan:
yeah, I came up with them as well, but frankly our forward line is better and I'd take Messi over an at-his-peak, at Barcelona Figo any day.
Dude, if some Real Madrid fans I know from elsewhere ever read what you just wrote, they would rip your head off and play basketball with it .

They can't conceive how someone can even dream of Messi being better than Figo, Eto'o comparable to Ronaldo, or Lord Forbids!!!!...Ronaldinho being better than Zidane (which IMHO, the best dinho is better than the best Zizou)


PD: I agree with you...I think a line up with the four aces Barcelona has joined is better than the four I named. however, man, did those four know how to play!!!!!...and it did hurt...I'm barça fan, you know
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:33 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #104
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At their bests Henry, Zidane, Ronaldo, then one of Ronaldinho/Messi/Figo would make up the best quartet. I couldn't call it though.

Also any bets going on Henry not starting I'm willing to take too.
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:39 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #105
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I'd agree with you, but the Ronaldo at Real Madrid wasn't as good as the vintage Barcelona model, and Raul's powers were beginning to wane then as well.
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:48 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #106
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Was that a response to mine or R4M's post?

If it was mine then I'm willing to go with Figo and Ronaldo being better in their Barca spells; then Real only have Zidane left out of the 6 players up for debate which makes Barca 5 times better than Real :cool:
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:49 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by punkskamonkey:
Was that a response to mine or R4M's post?

If it was mine then I'm willing to go with Figo and Ronaldo being better in their Barca spells; then Real only have Zidane left out of the 6 players up for debate which makes Barca 5 times better than Real :cool:
yours.

and it's really validating to hear all this praise for Barcelona, I really despaired for OTF after it seemed everyone here were Franco-loving fascists.
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:50 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by yovan:
I’m from Spain.
COÑO yovan!!! no jodas!...no tenia ni idea!...

sabes que parecemos los del chiste del español que coje un taxi en Heathrow...con un chofer español??? jajajaj

que-hacemos-entonces-hablando-en-ingles? XDDD

en fin, te contesto y voy a sobar que es tarde.


(Sorry for the rest of the audience...I didn't know yovan was also spanish...from now on, no more spanish, and everything in english)

Quote:
Txiki is the puppet of Cruyff. In fact Cruyff didn’t supported Bassat (2000) or Laporta (2003), he supported his puppet. Johan loves to control everything (Barça, Holland, Holland U21) but then he blames the others.
I don't deny cruyff's ascendancy over barcelona, as I said before.

However if Cruyff had the power you say he has,do you think he would've allowed Ronaldinho's training "vacations"?. Deco's standing against Rijkaad because he didn't want a christmas stage to do intense work on fitness?.

All the atrocious things that have happened this year would've never happened with a strong guide when the players started giving more importance to their own "good" instead of the team's. A strong punch on the desk, a good couple of yells at the right moment and all the stupidity of this year gone.

Cruyff would've done it. And had he had the power you said, he would've got another one to do it in his name...but that has never happened. So he must have much less power than you think, isn't it?

Quote:
We have a Dutch coach, we play Dutch football. That’s the influence of Cruyff.
I can't agree with this. Not this year but the previous 2 seasons Barcelona style was dutch when on the offense. When in the deffense the pressure system put on by rijkaard reminded me of the good times of Milan. half of the balls stolen by barcelona were at the rival team's own side of the yard. And that was achieved by a smart pressure setup.

on another note, barcelona doesn't play with true wingers, as dutch teams always do. Barça plays with players on the wings cutting towards the middle when possible. Not really like dutch football tbh.

So I'd say it's italo-dutch...if you get my drift.

Anyway the dutch influence is something that comes from much, much before Cruyff's tenure as a manager. It comes from the time when Cruyff was a player at Barcelona. In fact the thing is that by tradition Barcelona plays (or intends to) play a beautiful, offensive kind of football that mixes well with the dutch theories and tactics. I think its not that Barcelona plays dutch-like football...I think that barcelona plays BARCELONA football, and it happens to be a similar concept to that of the dutch


Quote:
1994 and 1995
Many problems in the locker room and Cruyff WAS the manager.
true in 1994/95 season. Not true in 93/94 (the Laudrup affair was a whole world in it's own and was a singular problem, not a locker room problem), and in the 95/96 was negligible because Cruyff had to fight off nuñez irresistible desire to kick him off barcelona. Wich was easier to say than to do with one hand while keeping the locker room united with the other.



Quote:
Beckham had a pre-contract with Real Madrid and Laporta knew it. He only agreed terms with Man U to win votes as he was the third/forth candidate. Beckham was part of his strategy.

Rossell said once that he talked with Ronaldinho BEFORE the elections. He offered him a place at Barça BEFORE the elections and Ronaldinho accepted.
it doesn't make a difference. Ronaldinho was signed without Rijkaard asking for him , and Frank had problems fitting him within the team because he simply didn't know where to put him on until he hit the 4-3-3 wonder - idea. And that was what I was saying

Quote:
Ronaldinho was signed because he was a high profile and a Nike player but since day one (v Milan in US) he played as AMC and we played 4-2-3-1. We had a coach, a sporting director, a general manger but no tactic?
Well we had a coach, a sporting director, a general manager...and a wrong tactic. the first round of the league is enough proof. As soon as the system was switched to a 4-3-3 Barcelona shined. And with dinho playing up on the left. Not at the middle.


Quote:
That’s the past, It’s like rating Maradona now from what he did in 1986.
you said Ronaldinho was crap on his first season at barcelona.

I replied with arguments on why that isn't true . He was the best, way past any other that season (the one coming closer was Xavi, that was the year he -really- revealed himself too).


Quote:
Ronaldinho is a bad professional and wasn’t the player of the year at Barça. Eto’o, Iniesta or Messi were clearly better than him.
I guess you're talking about his second season in barcelona (and the first half of the third) where he won the golden ball.

I can't agree, yovan. I know Eto'o was sublime, but I had never seen a player so much over the rest of those surrounding him since I saw maradona playing (and instantly became a Barça fan for life). He simply wasn't of this world. the exhibition at the Bernabeu is not at the reach of the mere mortal, mate.

I agree he's had a bad attitude last 18 months. But he single handedly accepted that all the blame of his bad fitness this season is his, and because of his bad training work. And he has promised to change that. and he has agreed to comply with the new internal regulations of the club.

which means he has learned the lesson. If this year "bad" performance (I insist, I can't seriously think he has had such a bad performance with his numbers of this season, tho I know he has beed BAD...ironic but true) serves for him to learn the lesson and train as he should do for the next seasons to come, its a welcome thing.

I think he's sincere in his promises. Time will tell.


Quote:
He is lucky he has a coach like Rijkkard because in another team he wouldn’t have played a single minute.
In another team he would have played as much as in barcelona. The source of the problem is as much ronaldinho's relaxed attitude towards training, as Rijkaard (and all the technical staff's) for allowing him such an attitude. In another team he would've never been allowed to train as little and as bad as he has trained at barcelona last 18 months. And that happened because Rijkaard let it happen: before that he trained as much and as good as the rest of the players at barcelona, and had been in the team for 2 years playing like a god.


Quote:
Messi, Márquez, Maxi, Deco or Motta are friends of Ronnie. Eto’o isn’t.
close relative with good relations. Call it whatever you want it to call it, but for sure they don't have the bad attitude AS or MARCA wants us to believe.



Quote:
Henry is one of the greatest European players ever and he will start (if fit) on match day 1. Wanna bet?
look the line up I wrote in the previous page...I'm starting to believe, too
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:01 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #109
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AJ do you support an English team at all?
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:03 AM   the FC Barcelona thread - 2007/2008 Post #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by punkskamonkey:
AJ do you support an English team at all?
nope, just Barça.
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