Blinky2004

Heya folks!

Was just wanting to explore the topic of Web design using PS/IR.

If you use these apps to design/create Websites... then could you please post here some of the 'typical' problems you have when using these programs to design/create your sites?

And/or could you list here what kinds of things/problems you'd like to learn to do/solve using PS/IR?

Thanks a bunch folks!
This info will be going to good use.

jonbalza

Hmm...

I never let ImageReady touch my HTML code, that's for sure. There are too many extra cells that get produced, I usually end up having to go back in there and rewrite it all anyway. Even if it could do CSS based layout, I don't know if I'd trust it to write that code.

Slicing and saving out the images - I haven't even that lately, mostly just because I don't like switching between PS and IR, and because "Save for Web" does almost everything I want it to.

What I'm missing from SFW is a feature in the "Matte" setting for GIFs, where it could sense the color information from the layer(s) beneath it (even when they are hidden) and use that to generate the matte, instead of using just a solid color.

Now, to the actual creation of the designs, not just saving them out - I have absolutely no problems with PS at all - especially with the addition of Smart Objects in CS2.

Blinky2004

Thx Jon...

The 'extra' cells you're referring to Jon are actually just an old 'smart' mehtod of ensuring that every browser renders the table correctly, and doesn't bust things up for any reason. They're sometimes referred to as "control or stabelizer cells".
Since PS/IR won't create any cells that you don't design yourself via slices, i'm assuming these are the 'extra' cells you're speaking of.

As for the CSS, i actually think it's quite clean.
It's applied on a basic level, so it would be hard for IR to screw that up. The CSS ends up inline, but a simple C&P to a text file would allow external linkage if you prefer that method.

One of the things you're missing out on by not using IR though Jon, is more specific control over your table/layout. IR allows manipulation of table cells, without having to deal with slices. For specifics on this subject just have a jaunt through the "Web Design" topic in the HELP! files. IR also has particular html control that PS doesn't offer.

To the SWF issue... i'm not completely sure i understand the problem. Can you provide any other specifics for that?

I also agree that with animation being added to CS2, IR will soon be an unnecessary beast.

jonbalza

Yeah, I know why the cells are there, but 99% of the time, they seem to be unneccesary. They can even show up when all rows in a table have the same column setup.

I guess that depends on your definition of "clean." I'm not a huge fan of absolute positioning (which IR has a particular fondness for), and I don't think IR will ever give you semantic markup for your code. (For instance, using lists to create your navigation.) Although, I guess expecting that may be unrealistic for any WYSIWYG web design program.

I'm not really sure what you are referring to with "IR allows manipulation of table cells, without having to deal with slices." But let's just leave it at "I like the control that doing things manually gives me."

As to the Save for Web issue, I don't really know how to explain it, other than to give a quick example:

http://www.jonbalza.com/temp/sfwexample.gif

In the above example, if you wanted the shape on the left to fit on a textured background like in the middle, you'd either save it as a PNG or have to do some really fancy trickery with a GIF to get a decent matte on it. What I would like is an easy way to get the matte applied to just the area where there is dropshadow, and not anywhere where the image on the left is completely 100% transparent.

I'm not sure that explained it any more clearly - hopefully it did.

Blinky2004

Ok i understand the matte issue now.

In that case, indeed a PNG w/alpha would be the answer.
This however would then force you to have to use the ol' javascript method to force IE to use the alpha channel info. But since that's just a C&P job i don't see that as a big deal myself.

I agree also about doing things manually. That's always been my method of choice. However... i have no problems letting PS/IR spit out the bulk of the code, so long as the design isn't a real complex one. If it is, i save out stuff and piece things together manually.

By 'clean' i simply mean "no frills". IOW it's hard to screw up something so basic. I haven't had any real issues using the code generated by PS or IR, so i'm not against using it to kick off a project. And i definately don't buy into all the hype around the Web concerning PS/IR spitting out so-called 'bad' code. I don't know which elitist starting that hype, but it sounds like a cop-out IMO.
So long as we understand that PS/IR won't ever be producing code at any level of sophistication, we should be able to accept what modest code it does create. And that's all i ever expect from it.

Absolute positioning... no i'm not a fan of that myself. But that's easily fixed, isn't it.

Well actually... that CAN be done, but only manually by the user. If you assign a slice/cell to have "no image", you can then use the option to add html text/code to that particular slice/cell. That's always a viable option for those with the ambition to use it.
I myself probably wouldn't do that, but the option is there.