Mother dies after refusing blood

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:07 PM

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at what point does a patient rejecting treatment become a suicide attempt?

when the treatment is needed due to harm they have purposefully caused to themselves

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:08 PM

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Originally posted by James07?:
If a person refuses medical treatment because of a fear of needles their wishes can be overturned as that fear is deemed irrational. For me, if a person refuses medical treatment because of a fear of hell their wishes should also be overturned as that fear is equally irrational.

If we're already going down a route that suggests the GMC advocating going against the wishes of patients in some circumstances why should religion get an opt out? Shouldn’t medical law and ethics be governed by cold hard logic and science?

I'm perfectly happy for people to do unto themselves what they see fit...that's their choice, but I'm not sure the law should have the same attitude. The law as it stands seems to be somewhat contradictory, in that it allows people to refuse treatment in circumstances such as this, yet does not allow people to choose the timing and circumstances of their death in other situations.

(I’m expecting to be summarily dismissed in less than a full sentence).

You think the government should take a stance of 'we don't care about your religious beliefs, we are going to do what is best for you whether you like it or not'?

retired_kimmymarlo · 11-05-2007, 04:10 PM

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Originally posted by Scatter:
james' point re: euthanasia also extremely pertinent btw. and, at what point does a patient rejecting treatment become a suicide attempt?

even if it's pertinent, it doesn't mean we should create a 2nd terrible law.

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:14 PM

anyone should have the right to take their own life (though obviously issues of 'state of mind' come into that)

retired_musiclova31 · 11-05-2007, 04:21 PM

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Originally posted by Andy Jordan:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Scatter:
james' point re: euthanasia also extremely pertinent btw. and, at what point does a patient rejecting treatment become a suicide attempt?

even if it's pertinent, it doesn't mean we should create a 2nd terrible law. </BLOCKQUOTE>
oh i completely agree. but for reasons i don't think i wanna touch here, it might very well become a necessity.

retired_musiclova31 · 11-05-2007, 04:22 PM

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Originally posted by The Rafalution:
<BLOCKQUOTE>at what point does a patient rejecting treatment become a suicide attempt?

when the treatment is needed due to harm they have purposefully caused to themselves </BLOCKQUOTE>
any proof this woman's pregnancy was an accident? you are making completely arbitrary rules here to try and justify this (for some reason).

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:27 PM

sorry, change it to 'intent to cause harm to oneself leading to death'
anything else isnt suicide. the women never intended to kill herself by getting pregnant and bleeding to death (i'd assume).

don't see how it can be considered suicide at all, she never actively tried to kill herself, she died passivly. no different than someone having a DNR order.

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:28 PM

actually I worded the whole thing badly, a patient rejecting treatment is never a suicide attempt.

retired_musiclova31 · 11-05-2007, 04:34 PM

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Originally posted by The Rafalution:
sorry, change it to 'intent to cause harm to oneself leading to death'
anything else isnt suicide. the women never intended to kill herself by getting pregnant and bleeding to death (i'd assume).

don't see how it can be considered suicide at all, she never actively tried to kill herself, she died passivly. no different than someone having a DNR order.

yeah, well done - my point is about 600 feet to your left. ofc she didn't plan some elaborate suicide through child birth ffs.

look, apply this to your arbitrary rules and see how it fits...

a woman is found with a gunshot wound to the stomach in her house. she is rushed to the hospital. the gun is found a few feet away from the body. there is no proof that she hasn't been shot by someone else, and no proof that she didn't do it herself. she is told that she needs a blood transfusion to survive. she's in a state of weak consciousness but understands. her husband/relative is contacted and refuses the transfusion on her behalf on religious grounds. the doctors turn to the patient hoping she is lucid enough to understand and approve. she refuses. adamantly.

hmmmm... now what?

retired_heidus17 · 11-05-2007, 04:44 PM

if she is considered of sound mind you dont give it to her. if not, well im not sure what the law states here re: spouses, but if she is saying no and the husband is saying no then its a no if thats the law, if he has no right to say then give it to her (if she is deemed not of sound mind). she can probably do a better job next time if it was suicide

Mother dies after refusing blood

Grab a beer, sit back and relax.

Mother dies after refusing blood