retired_10lbsless

Some would consider this thread pointless. There is little point in criticising SI if you don't know how they do their job. Seeing as noone from SI is posting in this thread it really doesn't matter what people are going to say in here.
Everyone will eventually get sick and tired of selfish people who find the game difficult to play, yet noone seems to appreciate the work that SI have put into this game. It is unfortunate that there are bugs that spoil some games, but people should consider what they are saying before they post on these forums, and cosider what it may be like for SI who may also read their post.

leanwitit

The idea of forum is that it invites people to discuss items about the game. Free argument, if in a controlled and non-agressive way, is welcomed. SI do read here even if they don't post

If nobody offers an opinion of what they feel is right and what is wrong then there will never be any change. This is called debate and progress. Constructive criticism is welcomed by SI

However I do agree with you that people should consider what they say or at least how they say it, there are some outrageous statements from time to time :eek:

retired_foxyfoxy87

I was accepted as a beta tester for one of the more recent versions of FM (can't remember which one). I reported an issue (again, can't remember details) which had been present in several versions already, along with detailed instructions on how to reproduce.

The issue was not something that would happen once in a blue moon, rather it was present in all games, and was easy to reproduce.

Yet I was asked to upload a saved game, which made absolutely no sense to me, and when I refused, I was kicked off the test team with no pre-warning.

My justifications for not wanting to upload a saved game for every issue were,

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> No need for it. Issue could be reproduced in any game.
<LI> Would take far too much time. If every little issue required a separate upload, I'd be doing much more uploading than testing. After all I wasn't getting paid for my time.
</UL>

It seemed to me that it was more important to SI to make me follow strict rules for reporting issues, with no flexibility regardless of the type of issue, than to actually find and fix issues. If this case can be used as an example of their approach to testing, then that would explain why a lot of issues are never fixed. I mean this in the sense that testers (both internally and externally) may well have found lots of bugs, but if the developers don't act on their reports then what's the point?

Maybe most bug reports are simply ignored by the developers? After all, the game contains a lot of bugs (many of which have been present for years), and maybe it's easier to turn a blind eye, than to accept the fact and try to fix the situation?

For each new version that is released, more (by now, minor) features are introduced while long-standing bugs are left as they are. Perhaps next year SI should focus on fixing the backlog of bugs, rather than attempting to introduce new features? Surely this would be welcomed by a lot of fans (definitely many of the ones that have been around since the start)? But the total sales figures would probably drop. At the end of the day, it's a business decision -- even for SI, the "consumer-friendly" games developer.

leanwitit

As I mentioned before I am a commercial software test manager.

Following procedure for defect logging is very valid, no matter how painful this can be at times to the testers / test team.

The aim is to define what test you were conducting, any pre-conditions to the test, what the expected result was and what the actual result was.

Any extra detail and information that enables the developer to understand and find the issue is a good thing e.g. saved game pkms etc. This is generally where time is lost. Time gained can mean more defects fixed.

My view is that there isn't sufficient time given to regression testing once a set of fixes are made.

There should be more test / fix / retest / regression cycles. At least this is my humble view knowing little about the SI dev and test strategies. No doubt the game engine is very complex and the tuning particularly difficult to avoid knock on effects

SI turn a blind eye - I dont think we'd let them do that even if they wanted to

ps1hak

It's called constructive criticism and it benefits developers because the most important step in improving your product is feedback. Hence the forums. So no, this is not a pointless thread.

The developers read these forums, regardless if it's all or just a few of the threads, but they do take it into account when developing their game and that's how it works.

If you put a product out, and you ignore the customer's feedback, you're losing sales, customers and reputation.

retired_foxyfoxy87

I didn't mention that I am myself a software developer. I am perfectly aware of what is required from a defect report. Sometimes you need more, sometimes you need less.

The main aim is to provide enough information for the developer to be able to reproduce the issue. I provided more than enough (like I said, it was plainly obvious), SI still weren't happy. The main thing for them was to follow the procedure, not to actually locate the fault.

On the other hand, I definitely agree with you that there appears to be far too little time set aside for the test cycles. Bug fixes are clearly done without proper retesting afterwards, so that new bugs aren't caught before release. Hence my suggestion to use the next year solely for fixing bugs.

leanwitit

Perhaps as a compromise an FM09 with more developers, testers and test cycles with regression tests :cool:

Lasek808

I think that they should be more testing on this game and fix all the bugs, we all still having problems with this game, but i think that they can it right.

retired_laurag

To be honest I wasn't expecting a response from then or am I looking for one either. If they have read the views of people and thought for a second then its worth while.

This post has shown as far as im concerned, how although you have a lot of people upset about this and on how many versions it has gone on for, they are still here supporting the brand. The fact that many here are complaining constructively, and offering any support, ideas or help shows that they are loyal and enjoy the game still.

What makes me sad about these forums are the guys who sprout the endless your tactics are rubbish and this is why your moaning to every thread that dares to question the game. Way some are going they will be blaming your tactics being wrong for your facepacks not loading!

We have had that in this thread, i've even been accused by some gutless wonder to having a fake version of the game. These are the people on the forums that do the most damage, because they are unable to see both sides of an argument, the fanboy as they are classed at.

Maybe some of us, and that could include me, are guilty of perfection, thats impossible to give everyone. I think the original build and closing down was ok, others don't, I think the patch is awful in beta form, others dont, some like the skin and again others don't. Fact is if people put across their views in a constructive manner and also the faults and issues in the same way, then the faults can not be sorted. Sorry to all the fanboys, but there is a bugs section that shows the game has some serious issues.

Its sad how many don't want to listen or agree to faults in something when so many prove and point them out. This game is a major brand in the gaming industry, its fanbase will never be doubted, I'm just hoping it doesn't get taken for granted or abused in time.

Some in here sadly do that already!

retired_laurag

I would say your never going to get a perfect problem free game for everyone, especially in the PC market with different specs.

The small issues and little annoyance's are sound, its the dirty great big ones that pass through that upset people. Like FM2007, who didn't see before its release that Rooney was always suspended for England? Surely someone before the game was finished played a bit of the international part. These are the sort of faults that shouldn't slip through!