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Old 11-19-2007, 08:49 PM   Laughing Out Loud Post #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bumface:
The way i see it with the updated Beta Patch, you are better off using a half arsed tactic that barely works, in order to score more of your shots on target and get your keeper to make a few saves.

If you put together an all conquering tactic that dominates possesion, has a massive % of passes completed and gets you 20-30 shots a game compared to the oppositions 2 or 3, then you are guaranteed to struggle to score and let in almost every shot the opposition has on target.
This is what Chopper was getting at though. Just because you are getting loads of shots doesn't mean your tactic is working as we can't see how good these chances actually are. And we all know that possesion means nothing in football. It's not how much of the ball you have that counts, but what you do with it.

For me, the big problem in this department is that we don't have an analysis tool to go with the match engine. We can't tell which foot the player hit the ball with. We can't tell if he hit the ball with the inside or outside of his foot, or if it was a toe punt or a slice. We cant tell if a player tried to show off and do something fancy and it's hard to tell if our players are rushing their shots, or taking their time. I do feel that there are too many efforts being created, but for me, the big problem is that we have nothing to analyse to details of the match engine, and an in depth match analysis tool, not a vague one like ProZone in CM, but one that can go into great detail into all the happenings on the pitch. This is a must for FM09 IMO, and if done properly, could help solve some of the problems.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:45 PM   Laughing Out Loud Post #112
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First of all thank you for the reply , i am a bit offensive in my speech so please don't take some of my replies as an attempt to offend you.

[quote]Originally posted by chopper99:
I can honestly say I've rarely seen any of the things you describe above. If my players not got a goalie in front of them they won't just spoon it over the bar for no reason and the AI keeper rarely makes triple saves, no more than in real life anyway. [\QUOTE]

I have not see a triple save for almost 3 years and i am attending my club's games almost every week

Quote:
Originally posted by chopper99:
See this is the problem, most people would stop buying the game if all the matches ended with at least 10 goals scored. You say:
So SI cuts the balls of my team so the game will sell, i don't get that logic but i will give you a point, the thing is again the purpose of the game , me to have fun with it or it to have fun with me.

Quote:
Originally posted by chopper99: But that's the point, your tactics are flawed if your not winning games. Fact. There are too many of us having success for it to be too difficult to win. The fact is, because of the fact that you're creating poor chances but plenty of them you think you're dominating but you're not really. If you had some feedback in the game to help you understand this it may be a lot easier to accept.
"Poor chances" having a striker infront of the GK? are you talking about another game maby? water polo ? "I think i dominate" having the game mostly played into AI's box? you believe reality is an illusion caused by the absence of drugs?

Quote:
Originally posted by chopper99: And if you're not winning games and are still unable to even think about altering your tactics then there may be no help for you. The fact is that if a team went all out attacking in real life there'd be plenty of times when they'd get caught out. The same happens in the game, if you create a tactic that's too quick, direct and attacking then you'll find yourself getting beat buy teams that sit back and catch you on the break. Again it's just difficult to realise this due to the lack of feedback.
Yes it happens, my real life club is a dominant one and many times we are cought in the counter attack but 9/10 times the score is already 3-0 so it doesn't matter . Football is not chess , in real life you create chances and you score goals in the game you create chances and either you lose them all or AI goalie blocks everything

Quote:
And the AI in no-way plays with any different rules, that's just rubbish. The AI managers just have a much better grasp of how the tactics work in the game. We should also be given some of this knowledge.
Not getting into a long technical post about scouting, training , tactics,forced transfers etc i will just tell you about the (super) grey players in European competitions, if this is not "different rules" then i am an elephant

Quote:
A player that has time to take a touch before having to snatch at a shot because they are being closed down is more likely to score it. Teams that play probing football in real life and look to build up to clear cut chances often do just that. Rather than teams that rush to get the ball in the box as quickly as possible leaving the striker to deal with a 60 yard cross field pass rather than a little dink through that they can just run onto and finish.
I miss you there , we are talking about fast pace direct passing not passes of 50 meters , still a striker infront of the GK should score 7/10 chances at worst , goalies are not the unbeatable walls they appear to be in the game.

[QUOTE]So what I mean by 'rushed shots' I suppose in rushed play in general rather than patient build up. I also mentioned may other things that may affect shots such as the player being off balance, tight angles, etc etc.[QUOTE]

"patient build" belongs to 1950 , i am playing fast with 3 strikers and try to get as many of my players in the box as possible , as you may understand many of my chances are clear ones yet missed , ah and i also don't use long shots at all .

In short being the better team and not winning can happen once every 10 games, also creating 20 chances and not scoring at least half of them makes the game boring , playing turtle speed 50's style is boring too. User managers are already being handicapped because the AI "plays with different rules" transferring all those unfair issues in the match engine makes the game even worst.

Again thank you for the reply
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:15 PM   Laughing Out Loud Post #113
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Have to say, I agree with the OP. Had 3 games on the demo so far (with Man u, Barcelona and Sunderland) and just can't get the ball into the back of the net. Also playing as Sunderland I had a similair shots to goals ratio as in my Man u game! I know its only the demo, so maybe with the patch this will be improved. Thing is, I'm not risking £30 on a game I might not like when I could buy something else instead (I'm skint already :p.

To sum my thoughts up, thanks but no thanks SI. I hope I get on better with FM09 as I really enjoy FM06+07. A :thdn: from me.
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