leftfoot

...aka I am flat broke so rather than boozing in the pub this is what I am doing with my spare time test.

***WARNING***
I make reference to hidden attributes and how they are affected by tutoring so if you would rather not know then stop reading. Also if you prefer the mystery of tutoring and not really knowing what the end result might be stop reading. I don't mention specific players either.

I wanted to know what the effect of tutoring was on players so I looked up various players who had been tutored by the AI managers and compared their attributes before and after using FM Modifier. It isn’t exactly statistically sound as I only looked at one or two players for each type+reaction couple I could find. It does however give an insight into the effects of the different tutoring choices on players. Just a note is that strangely I couldn’t find a single player who the AI had used the ‘can learn from option’ with but I only went through Premiership and Championship clubs at which stage I got fed up. That’s the reason it isn’t listed. The number in brackets after the favoured/disliked person relates to a numeric value between 1 and 100 which according to FM Modifier is assigned in the memory location of the game. Also the layout is "Tutoring option chosen: Tutored players response when it had finished".

Ideal Role Model: Got the benefit of their experience
PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
Favoured Person (100)
Increase in Determination relative to tutor

Ideal Role Model: gained a little
No PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
No Favoured Person Effect
Increase in determination relative to tutor

Ideal Role Model: personality clash*
No PPMs
Negative changes in mental attributes
Decrease in Determination
Disliked Person (100)
Also a disliked person appeared for the manager but at the same time a favoured person one appeared with a value outside the range at 218. What this means I do not know.
*just to note here is that the guy being tutored had better mental stats which made the relative changes negative ones. Also this one which illustrated the changes occurred after 4 months. Another I looked at occurred after 1 month and there were no changes at all except disliked persons. Then yet another was 4 months but there were mental changes relative to the tutor. The only difference I can see between the three ‘clash of personality’ outcomes is age (23, 20 and 16 at the time tutoring was initiated).

Ideal Role Model: frustrating
No PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor except 2
No change in determination relative to tutor
Disliked Person (50)
This also produced a disliked personnel for the manager but less severe than with a personality clash and without the favoured person (218).

Adopt Approach: Showed me his moves
PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
Favoured Person (50)
Increase in Determination relative to tutor

Adopt Approach: Gained a little
No PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
No Favoured Person change
Increase in determination relative to tutor

Adopt Approach: Got the benefit of their experience
PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
Favoured Person (100)
Increase in Determination relative to tutor

Adopt Approach: Frustrating
No PPMs
Changes in mental attributes relative to tutor
Disliked Tutor and to a lesser extent manager
Decrease in determination

A few notes on what I found:-
Ideal role model = more likely to cause a personality clash or the tutored player finding the learning experience frustrating.
Even when both players initial response is positive there can still be a personality clash.
Keep an eye on training bars as if they are lower than expected for a given schedule it can indicate unhappiness due to the tutoring experience. Since you can’t cancel the tutoring the best thing is to try to ship the youngster out on loan.
The vast majority of AI managers used the same position players when tutoring. When they used different positions it ended with ‘gained a little’ or ‘frustrating’ or ‘clash of personalities’ and no transfer of PPMs which might be a case of cause and effect to prevent unnatural PPMs.
I have wondered about the combination of ‘shoots with power’ and ‘places shots’. The one instance where I found the AI tried to combine these resulted in a ‘gained a little’ experience and no PPMs learnt. It might be a coincidence or it might be a case of the game preventing contradictory PPMs (or PPMs combined which lead to exceptional performance maybe).
Player moves are gained on a continuous basis. I would assume there is a measure of how well it is learnt and when this value is reached it is displayed in the tutored player’s profile. This observation is based on players being sent on loan in the middle of tutoring but still gaining some PPMs.
I couldn’t find obvious mental attributes differences that cause a personality clash or frustration (that’s not to say there isn’t link, just it wasn’t immediately obvious from a simple comparison).
When a player to be tutored is initially unsure of the benefit then the best outcome you can expect is the least positive i.e. gained a little.
One younger player (aged 22) who was a tutor had his professionalism increase after a successful tutorial. It could just be a coincidence though.
I wasn’t checking these over the exact period, i.e. just before tutoring started and right after it finished, so whether this affected liked/disliked personnel ratings I can’t say.
Every CB I found with the ‘likes to play his way out of trouble’ PPM had been given a tutoring assignment by the AI. An interesting coincidence or intentional?

What conclusion did I draw from this test? I am still confused by the whole process and maybe that’s the point i.e. it’s a crap shoot. But at the same time it does appear that it is not the type of tutoring chosen but the outcome that determines which traits are passed on. I also couldn’t see any obvious link between which types of players match up to give the best outcome or what type of personality governs which method will produce the best outcome (I’m sure there must be some sort of calculation involving weighting and comparison but it wasn’t simple enough to spot).

Again this wasn’t a comprehensive thing, just the first few players I came across that matched the various combinations in the list above. So if anyone who is tutoring within their game could make notes of before and after including the approach chosen and the end tutored player reaction, and if you find something to contradict the outcomes above then feel free to post (there is no need for FM modifier since a PPM gained in a situation I listed above as not gaining one will be enough to show the above findings are wrong). Any input is welcome of contradictory/supporting evidence.

vineela

nice useful post this.

but isnt the above sort of contradictory as wouldnt sending them out on loan sever the tutoring link but how are they still learning PPMs from the tutor?

i'd like to know how to get people to want to learn off someone else, sometimes i think its down to squad status/player reputation (20 year old "first team" player less willing to learn than a 20 year old "hot prospect") or maybe time at club or age.

however, at ac milan, i've gotten:

-sergio aguero (19, key player, at club for 1 month) able to learn.
-mattia cassani (24, hot prospect, at club for 1 year) to learn PPMs.
-alex pato (18 at the time, rotation) to learn but in a previous game, there wasnt an option for tutoring for him at all.
-bale, (18, first team, 6 months), unable to tutor.
-bolzoni, (19, key player, 1 day), able to tutor.

what gives?! each one of the examples seems to contradict what i think "enables" the tutoring option.

the one obvious sign i've noticed is on their profile if it says "similar type of player to XXX" then theres a good chance you can tutor then but i cant get that comparison to show up consistently for youth!

i dont think its what team (regardless of squad status) the player is that determines it either, i've had pato in the u20's team whilst he was not eligble to play games and still no option to tutor.

diggers34

Does current/potential ability also rise in tutored player?
Or do they get that increase of mental stats from their PA..

koolkid

I think the "similar-type of player to x" goes only for his football. So personality clashes can still occur.

vineela

i find "similar to player X" match ups go very well, though i have had some weird matchups where a young MRLC with even stats across the board is compared to my star AMC with stats a AMC should have..

retired_pamjoseph

First of all, the PA never rises, it's static.


And talking about tutoring, I've found that tutor must play often with first team and have some PPM's in order to get a good result from tutoring. If the tutor does not play, often there is a "Gained a little" result.

Also without PPM's young players don't like to be tutored.

now I have two questions:

-If the tutored player plays often in the first team, he can get a good result from tutoring?

-Why some players don't want to be trained from certain player at the beginning?

vineela

i've only noticed that a player has to be present in the first team to be available to tutor but not necessarily be a first team regular.

i had maldini (who was banished to the reserves) and rarely played a first team game, tutoring a young dutch player called bujis (who was in the u21 squad), he picked up PPMs and was happy at the end of it.

usually if i'm giving experience to people being tutored and they're on the bench, i try and sub them in the same place their tutor is playing.

retired_pamjoseph

i've only noticed that a player has to be present in the first team to be available to tutor but not necessarily be a first team regular.

i had maldini (who was banished to the reserves) and rarely played a first team game, tutoring a young dutch player called bujis (who was in the u21 squad), he picked up PPMs and was happy at the end of it.

usually if i'm giving experience to people being tutored and they're on the bench, i try and sub them in the same place their tutor is playing. </BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummm, i have a keeper that interacts with supporters (don't remember the name of the PPM), and in first season he played regularly and teached that PPM to a youngster. Next season, he was still in first team, but didn't play (although he was in the first team always) and next younger didn't learn the PPM. Could be a coincidence, but I have also another winger who playing less than 5 games, didn't teach his PPM. Maybe there are a minimum of matches that tutor has to play (about 20%)

vineela

but in my example, maldini had less than 5 sub appearances all year, was stuck in the reserves otherwise.

in your example, maybe the 2nd youngster wasnt quite as willing to learn as the first?

diggers34

but in my example, maldini had less than 5 sub appearances all year, was stuck in the reserves otherwise.

in your example, maybe the 2nd youngster wasnt quite as willing to learn as the first? </BLOCKQUOTE>
Maldini is a living legend of Milan and Italy. Who wouldnt want to learn from him