vineela

oddly, i've had quite a few not happy about learning from maldini, not sure why.

retired_Tinman

Maybe they ain't fancying themselves staying at a club all their lives and not moving.

Nonetheless, being a Rossoneri fan I'm all but respects for Paolo and am always trying to create his successor in the game - a left back from the youth academy who loves the club and as good as him.

retired_Tinman

I'm all respects for Paolo Maldini..sorry..brain not functioning well anymore it's about 2.30am here in Singapore..

leftfoot

Is this some kind of record? A thread that takes 16 days to get it's first response. I thought this had died a natural death.

When I was checking these out I went through AI controlled players and looked in their Media Section of their History. Basically what I found was players who had the initial media response at the beginning of being tutored, but no end response. In all of these cases the player had gone out on loan after the tutoring began. In some of these cases the players had gained PPMs before going out on loan from which I reached the conclusion that players gain PPMs as the tutoring progresses rather than them all being given instantaneously when the tutoring ends. It would be easy to check if this is true are not yourself. The next time you start to tutor a player with someone who has multiple PPMs keep tabs on him on a regular basis, e'g' every 2 weeks, to see if PPMs have appeared. This might also be an indication of whether or not the process is going well.

I don't know about this one but it might be to do with 'perceived' squad status. Here's 2 examples from my current squad:-

GK, Age 23, 21 First Team Appearances this season just ended.
When I go to offer him a new contract he is willing to accept 'hot prospect'.
He still has turoting options available.

DM, Age 23, 21(4) First team appearances this season just ended.
When I offer him a new contract the lowest he will accept is 'backup to the first team'.
He has no tutoring options available.

It's just one of those things that appears if the game deems it necessary. The reason it doesn't show up for other players is because based on attributes (hidden and visible) the game does not view them as similar. Basically it is all a combination of numbers in the game's memory. So the code scans youngsters, compares with your squad, and if the criteria is met it displays that message.

It did appear that players who had successful outcomes to tutoring had higher gains in CA relative to players of the same age, but there are so many things taken into consideration such as playing time, injuries, CA/PA difference, professionalism, happiness, morale etc. that I can't say with 100% accuracy that the succesful tutoring caused this. What I would say is that it appears that the hidden mental attributes, ambition and professionalism, in combination with player happiness have the biggest impact on a young player's development (assuming all other things are equal e.g. playing time and injuries).

The mental stats that changed were the hidden ones:-

Adaptability, Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship, Temperament, Controversy

and sometimes determination also. If a swing in hidden mental attributes is significant it is reflected in the information given to you in the game by a change in the Personality section of a player's profile.

Mental attributes determination, aggression, bravery and flair are fixed when a player is generated and don't change as CA increases. Determination can change via tutoring. I have also noted a link between aggression, violent behaviour, red cards and aggression. One of my younger players had 2 red cards for violent conduct and after both incidences I fined him 2 weeks wages. His aggression dropped by 2 points, but it could just be a coincidence. I had the same for another youngster as well (youngster for me in the game means under 24).

One note of caution I would give is the case of buying young foreign players. If you have had them for a decent duration, e.g. 1 1/2 years, and they have yet to complain of difficulties settling in the area regardless of playing time then it is safe to say they have a decent 'adaptability' attribute. If you decide to tutor them with a 'home national' this may lead to problems as 'home nationals' often have low adaptability ratings which might get passed on to the foreign youngster. This might lead to them becoming homesick.

vineela

maybe this should've been posted to tactics/training forum so it doesnt get lost under all the "i want patch now!" threads cluttering up the general forum.

interesting, in the above two examples, what are their current squad status set to? it does seem logical to think that if they dont consider themselves backup to the team or higher, they wont want to learn from someone else..

i'll try and offer aguero a new contract to see if "hot prospect" is available or not.

he was signed as a key player and i was given the option to tutor right away, but for bale, younger, had 6 months on at the club, signed as key player also, during all that time, no option whatsoever.

maybe after X amount of games played for the first team, the player will consider himself too good to tutor but then that still doesnt explain my experience with bale.

Geoff

maybe i'm unlucky, but every time i've noticed that a player :
looks up to #senior player#
is honoured to be at the same club as #senior player#

or on the click list shows that youth player is a similar type player to #senior player#
then i always try to set the youth to be tutored by that senior player.

every single time though, it turns out to be a waste of time and nothing was learnt.

i don't understand why si would even bother implementing this as an option if they are simply going to give a 'bum' steer regarding who should be tutoring the player.

waste of time.

retired_jamoca

Good thread guys. :thup:

Learned a couple new things but already knew about most of what has been suggested.

I used tutoring very regularly and with quite a good success ratio as well in FM 07 and plan to do the same in FM 08 when patch comes and I finally start playing.

retired_jamoca

Oops, forgot to say:

ISAF: Yes, PPM's do come gradually through tutoring process. Not all at ONCE out of nowhere one day.

retired_lina2212

i don't always like this feature, if someone doesn't like their tutor from the off I get the younger lad off to an affiliate straight away then bring him back and try again

leftfoot

Both of the above examples were set to 'hot prospect'. Just to clarify it isn't what is available to choose in the 'offer contract' section but when you go to offer them a contract what it is they ask for initially. I have never been in a situation where a player looking for 'Backup' has accepted 'hot prospect'.

The key difference between the two players is the one looking for backup status has a higher reputation and also has much higher ambition.

This I reckon is probably a personality issue aswell. I often sign youngsters as 'backup' because that's what they initially ask for and I really want to sign them. Then a few months later I set them back to 'hot prospect'. Some players get the hump and some don't. Usually those with an ambitious personality react the worst. So in your situation maybe Aguero didn't initially see himself as 'key player' but Bale did? Just a theory. What might also effect this is who else is at your club in their natural position and if they consider themselves better, probably based on reputation.

In my experience the whole 'perceived squad status' concept is on going. For example I have a striker set as squad rotation and use him when one of my key strikers needs a rest. Then my first team player gets injured for 3 months and my 'squad rotation' guy becomes a first team player. During this period he starts demanding a new contract and when I go to offer it to him he wants 'first team' status and won't accept 'squad rotation'. So I cancel the negotiation and tell him to wait until the end of the season. By this time my key player has come back and the striker demanding a new contract has resumed in a squad rotation role. Now when I go to offer him a new contract he accepts 'squad rotation'. To summarise:-

December to February: Plays 2 out of every 3 matches => demands first team status in contract negotiations
March to May: Plays 1 in 4 matches => accepts squad rotation in contract negotiations

That's the reason I stopped tutoring on 07. I was testing it out by holidaying and selected various player tutoring pairings. One of those included a player being tutored by Tevez who was similar to him and had 'he was honoured to be at the same club as Tevez' in his profile. No problems in the holiday test. Yet when I did the same when I was playing the game these two players had a personality clash. That gave me the impression that it is quite random and the costs if it went wrong far outweighed the benefits.

I would rather hang onto my youngster with the potential to be a star. It's not worth the risk of him demanding a transfer due to a personality clash for the sake of a few PPMs.