finneys13

What was the 3rd home rule bill about then? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Was passed in 1912, postponed to 1914 because of the House of Lords being old farts, it was very light in powers to Dublin, something like the Welsh Assembly really, not what the Home Rule MPs wanted ot the people at large.

Ireland was about to have a Civil War as a small minority in the NE didn't want Home Rule, the British Army almost mutinied because of it, and then some ostrich was shot by Archie Duke, which Westminister used as an excuse to postpone Home Rule again.

Sir Bert Preast

We'll never know, will we? In any case, it's almost a century after that. Civilization is supposed to progress, not regress. We've had enough examples that war doesn't exactly yield the results the hawks claim they aim for.

Time to try something else. Diplomacy sounds like something worth trying out, yeah </BLOCKQUOTE>

So let's get diplomatic with the Taleban? We didn't try diplomacy with Saddam? </BLOCKQUOTE>

iirc Saddam was allowing the investigators in and even offered to leave the country before the deadline </BLOCKQUOTE>

He offered to leave? Source?

And costing us billions moving all the kit there, then promising to be good until we move it all away again won't wash.

Retro

It was actually missed by those who wished to aim a broadside at me... but earlier I did ask the question as to what a terrorist was (and in doing so made a basic definition):

Now, I'm in no way knowledgeable about the 1919 'rising'. What were the targets of the IRA at that time? Were they military targets or civilian targets?

For me, if the IRA were targetting British military facilities in Ireland in order to put pressure on the British government, then that is different in intent to attacking civilian targets whether in Britain or Ireland in order to bring pressure on the government. The first is to force the government to take notice by inflicting damage to its military power (and cost money ofc). The other is to instil fear into the minds of the public, which in turn brings social pressure on to the government.

DJ

'Do what we want or we'll clobber you a second time' is a rather poor attempt, tbh. In diplomacy, the idea is to feck the other side over and make them feel good about it.

Makes Kissinger look good in comparison...

Sir Bert Preast

Not saying it's the only thing we should try.

Corrupting themselves and their minnows also something that's never been tried. I am convinced that for a price, you could oust most corrupt governments.

For the amount that the US has spent on weapons since 2001, they could have bought all of Africa and have had spare change left for assorted South American torture states. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Huge bribes and a new life of luxury in the US for evil dictators, you mean? Didn't we try that already? IIRC it resulted in lots of evil dictators. I wasn't surprised.

finneys13

It was actually missed by those who wished to aim a broadside at me... but earlier I did ask the question as to what a terrorist was (and in doing so made a basic definition):

Now, I'm in no way knowledgeable about the 1919 'rising'. What were the targets of the IRA at that time? Were they military targets or civilian targets?

For me, if the IRA were targetting British military facilities in Ireland in order to put pressure on the British government, then that is different in intent to attacking civilian targets whether in Britain or Ireland in order to bring pressure on the government. The first is to force the government to take notice by inflicting damage to its military power (and cost money ofc). The other is to instil fear into the minds of the public, which in turn brings social pressure on to the government. </BLOCKQUOTE>

They tried to limit themselves to military targets, but of course civilians died as 'collateral damage'.

Sir Bert Preast

What was the 3rd home rule bill about then? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Was passed in 1912, postponed to 1914 because of the House of Lords being old farts, it was very light in powers to Dublin, something like the Welsh Assembly really, not what the Home Rule MPs wanted ot the people at large.

Ireland was about to have a Civil War as a small minority in the NE didn't want Home Rule, the British Army almost mutinied because of it, and then some ostrich was shot by Archie Duke, which Westminister used as an excuse to postpone Home Rule again. </BLOCKQUOTE>

The north did want home rule - just not under Dublin. If the Irish had waited until after WW1 they would probably have got independence without all the unpleasantness. Typical gingers.

How is it every time we go to war with France the Scots stab us in the back, and every time we go to war with Germany the Irish stab us in the back. It's really quite unfair.

Sir Bert Preast

'Do what we want or we'll clobber you a second time' is a rather poor attempt, tbh. In diplomacy, the idea is to feck the other side over and make them feel good about it.

Makes Kissinger look good in comparison... </BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what we did in GW1. Saddam got ****ed over and came out crowing about his great victory.

But it needed a war, which rather shoots your theory down.

DJ

Nah. If anything, there was refuge for those who were, for some reason or other, held in some regards by the host country. More of a reward afterwards than an honest attempt to make them leave their position.

People become dictators on the chance that they'll be bought out? Never heard of that.

Kizzak

We'll never know, will we? In any case, it's almost a century after that. Civilization is supposed to progress, not regress. We've had enough examples that war doesn't exactly yield the results the hawks claim they aim for.

Time to try something else. Diplomacy sounds like something worth trying out, yeah </BLOCKQUOTE>

So let's get diplomatic with the Taleban? We didn't try diplomacy with Saddam? </BLOCKQUOTE>

iirc Saddam was allowing the investigators in and even offered to leave the country before the deadline </BLOCKQUOTE>

He offered to leave? Source?

And costing us billions moving all the kit there, then promising to be good until we move it all away again won't wash. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Former Spanish Prime Minister José Maria Aznar