Let's wind Bert up, shall we ?

retired_princesspouty · 10-22-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daaaaave:
literally stopped reading after the third word.

Oh no... really? Well that's me well-and-truly put in my place.

Incidentally, you so did read it all.

retired_princesspouty · 10-22-2007, 05:30 PM

Right then - time-wasting over. What's little Finneys on about now?

retired_justin05 · 10-22-2007, 05:30 PM

I wouldn't say Dave is moaning Retro. He's objecting to the way we're discussing semantics rather than the issues themselves. Probably because he wants to discuss the issues and can't because it always gets dragged down to the semantics. Problem I see is that it's the language that defines Bert's opinion so you the key is to make him see the definitions are meaningless but then you're into semantics again. It's obviously all pointless but no one responds to anything but blacks and whites anyway. You bring ambiguity to the discussion and OTF stupidly sees it as a lack of conviction.

retired_miki57 · 10-22-2007, 05:31 PM

IRA being terrorists/freedom fighters. One and the same really...

retired_ks reddy · 10-22-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tanman007:

Other points I feel like adding: (feel free to ignore)
-Having an Armenian in my course whom I talk to frequently, and watching docos and reading history books I think the Turks are very guilty of ignoring mass genocide and revising history to potray the genocide as part of a declared war.

-Turkey have a right to attack Kurdish rebels hiding in Iraq if they have kidnapped and killed Turkish soldiers, the US might not like it, but unlucky. I'm swaying toward the side that the PKK have committed mass terrorist acts against the Turkish population, and that this Turkey's war on terror. And the Jasari dude made a point about the Baghdad gov. behind merely a US puppet. Worth discussing, but maybe for another thread.

Right, back to that exam I need to study for.

For the Armenian thing, I agree totally. The Turks were guilty of genocide, and should admit it. Got no bearing on them going after the PKK though.

The PKK have undoubtedly been hiding out in Iraq, and there's been a noticeable lack of effort on the part of the Kurdish government in Iraq to do anything about it. So the Turks are right to threaten, and if that doesn't work they're right to go in after them. If it ends up with Kurdistan vs Turkey, that's tough on the Kurds. But they should've thought about that and hunted the PKK who were crossing the border themselves, then they wouldn't be in this mess.

retired_ks reddy · 10-22-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ:
Goodness me, why be so difficult?

People who kill other people who are not a direct threat to them or their cause are in the wrong. Simple as.

In my opinion, self-defence against a direct threat is the only defensible use of violence for a civilized person or society. All other use of violence will cost innocent people dearly, which renders the aim of the used violence nill and void.

Hence me saying that Bush and cronies have set us back about 80 years in development by returning to 'war is the continuation of diplomatics by other means' of before WW I.

You think diplomacy would've avoided WW1?

retired_jabda · 10-22-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Retro:
Right then - time-wasting over. What's little Finneys on about now?

Don't demean me

retired_ks reddy · 10-22-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by finneys13:

Isn't a Civil War a war between two factions that want to control a country? Something which the Irish War of Independence wasn't, as Ireland wanted to succeed from the Union?

If they'd done so by political pressure and popular votes rather than taking up arms, it wouldn't have been a civil war.

retired_princess160 · 10-22-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bert Preast:
You think diplomacy would've avoided WW1?

We'll never know, will we? In any case, it's almost a century after that. Civilization is supposed to progress, not regress. We've had enough examples that war doesn't exactly yield the results the hawks claim they aim for.

Time to try something else. Diplomacy sounds like something worth trying out, yeah

retired_princesspouty · 10-22-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by finneys13:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Retro:
Right then - time-wasting over. What's little Finneys on about now?

Don't demean me

</BLOCKQUOTE>
Me? Demean? Never!

Your question is a very good one to be fair. So good that I don't have an immediate answer/opinion and would need to ponder for at least a couple of minutes.

Let's wind Bert up, shall we ?

Grab a beer, sit back and relax.

Let's wind Bert up, shall we ?