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I'm into my 5th season now and i have collected stats enough to suggest just how biased this game is towards the human user.
Of course its not so blatant that SI will ever admit to it, but the information is damning enough if you take the time to look at it.
This season i finally had a whole squad of players able through rotation to have a decent shot of the title. Every season so far i've put our inabilities down to slightly weaker areas of the squad, but now there are no excuses.
Before the fanboys start their usual unsubstantiated defence of the games creators, the obvious one being "its your tactics", let me just say, i have now finished four whole seasons playing as West Ham and have had the following success.
Season 1
4th in Prem
C Cup Final(lost)
FA Cup 4th rnd
Season 2
3rd in Prem
CL Qualifier (lost on away goals to Juventus)
EC Qualifier (lost to Panathanaikos on away goals despite dominating both legs)
C Cup Qtr Final
FA Cup Semi Final
Season 3
4th in Prem
CL Qtr Final(lost to Juve on away goals AGAIN)
C Cup Semi Final
FA Cup 5th Rnd
Season 4
2nd in Prem
EC Winners(lost in CL group including Juve, Valencia and Bayern, lost twice against weakest team Bayern)
C Cup Final(lost)
FA Cup Final(lost)
My point here is only to show that tactically we are very strong, i'm not trying to say i should be winning all these competitions, in fact, you would wonder why the hell i'm moaning, as surely i am overachieving?.
Truth is, if all i had to do was put together a team, choose a tactic and wait for the result, then i would'nt be having a moan, the whole point of this thread(and many like it), it to show that not only is the match engine in its weakest state ever, but that it IS biased, although SI swear this not to be the case!.
Since the end of season 1 our players are decribed by the Ass Man as having "developed a strong understanding", as i have'nt had much in the way of transfer funds(another massive problem with the game especially as the Board have a plan set to challenge for the Prem, yet will not invest much in the way of funds?) since season 1, i imagine thats why it has stayed that way, only picking up two or three players each season and playing a smart rotation system. Again here i'm trying to make the Fanboys aware that it is'nt my imcompetency that is the reason for my complaint.
In each of my four previous seasons in the Prem, i have taken stats to try to work out how i can improve my tactics so that i can not only compete, but can begin to win some of those elusive trophies?.
Going through these stats, i've noticed that i'm actually scoring a similar amount of goals as the other top clubs and also conceding on a similar ratio. The stats also show that we are having more shots and are having similar or less shots against us.
I always have at least one of my strikers(sometimes both), in the top scorers list and they regularly out score strikers from clubs competing at the top of the league, so why are we dropping so many points compared to the other challenging clubs?.
Well here we go, this is what i have come across after some intense divulgence into these stats.
For a start, we are having twice as many games in which we dont actually score a goal at all, compared to the other clubs around us. For some reason(and we'll get there), we just dont score in as many games, but instead are more likely to bag a hatful of goals in games instead?. This of course is why many people are watching their team have countless efforts but being unable to put the ball in the back of the net. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with tactics, but is instead a clear indicator that something is amiss with the games coding.
I delved deeper into the whole striker scoring more goals than the top strikers from the other challenging clubs and the stats clearly show that despite my strikers scoring more goals, they are actually scoring in less games to a quite ridiculous ratio.
For instance, Tevez at Man Utd may have scored less goals than both Cavani and Briand(my top scoring strikers), but is likely to have scored in more actual different games than both my strikers put together?. The truth is that despite my strikers both having phenomenal scoring records, this is only because WHEN they score and the game has been calculated for my side to win, they will then go on to bag two or three or even more in one game, whereas the AI controlled strikers conveniently and cunningly(it took me a long time to spot), bag just enough to win games for their club and as such their clubs are likely to pick up more points.
Have a look for yourself?, you dont need to be Einstein to figure it out, but its not something you would normally look at, but once you have, it certainly stands out.
Again for the Fanboys, this is not some paranoia induced conspiracy theory, its the facts and while i'm quite sure i'll get flamed to death for this thread, i feel its only right that others are aware how the game operates and that the constant promise from SI that the AI is completely un-biased and the game is as fair for the Human Manager as it is for the AI is simply not the case, it may have been well hidden in the code, but i'm sure there are just as many other similar "coding bias's" waiting to be uncovered.
Don't know about anyone else, but your continually reference to "fanboys" gets up my nose.
By using that expression you imply that anyone who disagrees with you, if they do, is going to be lumped into a basket called "fanboy" and their comments dismissed.
I'm not a "fanboy", I do like the game, and respect what SI do, but as you have set you stall out in such an aggressive manner, I'm not going to debate the points you raised.
Trying to provoke a thoughtful discussion should not involve attempting to rubbish other members before you even get started.
Originally posted by Ranson52:
Don't know about anyone else, but your continually reference to "fanboys" gets up my nose.
By using that expression you imply that anyone who disagrees with you, if they do, is going to be lumped into a basket called "fanboy" and their comments dismissed.
I'm not a "fanboy", I do like the game, and respect what SI do, but as you have set you stall out in such an aggressive manner, I'm not going to debate the points you raised.
Trying to provoke a thoughtful discussion should not involve attempting to rubbish other members before you even get started.
Your probably right, i maybe should have worded it differently, but was'nt sure how?.
I dont want the thread to be about anything but the points i raised in the OP, otherwise it will simply get closed.
As i was writing the OP, all i could think about was the amount of "its your tactics" or "its your training" posts that were bound to follow.
I apologise to anyone offended by my Fanboy jibe and hope we can have a decent debate on the issues raised above?.
You have some very good points, but the sad thing is, this is what the game has been like for the last few years - i could load my old games from 2007, 2006 and 2005 and find the same things that youve posted here.
Originally posted by Wakers:
You have some very good points, but the sad thing is, this is what the game has been like for the last few years - i could load my old games from 2007, 2006 and 2005 and find the same things that youve posted here.
I have thought the very same thing. There may even be a case for SI to appeal that it was'nt an intentional bias and that its just certain areas of the coding causing the problem?, but a problem it is and until it is sorted out once and for all, the game will never have an un-biased feel to it?.
I completely disagree with your assumption that the AI is biased in any way regarding human users.
In fact, I'm not too sure what you're complaining about. On one hand, you have overachieved with a mid-table team. On the other hand, you are complaining that Tevez is scoring more consistently than your strikers. So in you opinion, is the AI for or against you?
The last time you posted on this topic, I linked to Shot ratio.
Did you read it?
It directly addresses the issue you've raised.
If you've built a tactic which generates more-than-the-average number of shots, especially shots-off-target and shots-directly-to-the-keeper, you get into a vicious cycle: your strikers' failure to score drops their confidence, and leads to more shots-off-target and more shots-directly-to-the-keeper.
The latter also increases the goalkeeper's confidence, causing him to "play a blinder", often putting in a MoM/Superkeeper performance.
I've thought that that effect was too pronounced and have been saying so for longer than you've been a member of this forum .. but there are also solutions to it, which I've addressed in the link provided.
If you'd rather believe the game is out to get you, go right ahead.
Originally posted by Amaroq:
The last time you posted on this topic, I linked to Shot ratio.
Did you read it?
It directly addresses the issue you've raised.
If you've built a tactic which generates more-than-the-average number of shots, especially shots-off-target and shots-directly-to-the-keeper, you get into a vicious cycle: your strikers' failure to score drops their confidence, and leads to more shots-off-target and more shots-directly-to-the-keeper.
The latter also increases the goalkeeper's confidence, causing him to "play a blinder", often putting in a MoM/Superkeeper performance.
I've thought that that effect was too pronounced and have been saying so for longer than you've been a member of this forum .. but there are also solutions to it, which I've addressed in the link provided.
If you'd rather believe the game is out to get you, go right ahead.
I may have only been a member of this Forum for a short time, but i'm not new to the game.
You assume that i am producing games in which i am having 30+ shots a game like many other frustrated players, which i am NOT and strongly believe that the issue they are having is largely due to using a tactic with only 1 striker, as i had the same issue under those circumstances which is why i changed to a 2 striker tactic.
I have read your thread when i first entered the Forum and from what i can remember(i'll read it again), you found that it would be deemed as ok the way the AI works and is coded in this situation, to which i wholeheartedly disagree.
As far as i'm concerned a player who is aware will get many efforts at goal is much more likely to continue to achieve a much healthier confidence than a player knowing he is unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 chances a game, simply because he knows he's likely to have many more chances to make up for his earlier misses, whilst a player unlikely to get more than 1 or 2 chances knows he has probably ruined any chance of bagging a goal for his side.
The same can be said about keepers too. The keeper likely to be kept busy all game is more likely to lose confidence because he's aware that he's more than likely to end up conceding, whereas a keeper who knows he has a solid defence in front of him and the oppsition will be lucky to have more than 1 or 2 chances will be very confident of a clean sheet.
The game, if it has in fact been coded as you suggested?, has got this seriously arse backwards and needs to be re-coded immediately to sort out the problem!.
I'm neither for, nor against you because I don't play FM08, but a simple observation...
Is it just me? All these "Evidence against the game and it's faults" thread's all seem to be West Ham related.
If you can, within a few seasons, get West Ham to the Champions League and FA Cup finals and FLYING in the League....
...Give yourself (and SI) a pat on the back.
Unbiased AI - Computer say's NO!. 
.. but there are also solutions to it, which I've addressed in the link provided.
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