retired_jessicadon

I'm not denying the top 4 are far better and stronger than the teams below.

Just don't believe that you should be punished for being better than your competitors. I'm not bored of the Spanish league and Barca and Madrid have had a far bigger advantage than the top teams here in financial terms. Bayern still considerably richer than their peers? UEFA cup a hoot iirc.

retired_nini59

A problem? It's not their fault that teams like Newcastle and Spurs can pish away similar amounts of money and get little out of it due to being run by simpletons.

It's a competition. Blaming the better sides for being a better a little barking. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, those clubs have managed themselves really well in the last decade or so but it feels now that there's not really any way in for another team. It's most likely that the top four will be ahead of everyone else by some distance this season, and next season, and for the foreseeable future. And that's really boring. What's happened in the past and who's managed themselves well/badly is a bit irrelevant, now it looks it's too late for someone to break into it.

</BLOCKQUOTE>

how is it irrelevant? success and continued success is an incentive for hard work, progress, long term planning, if you could finish top one year then bottom the next there'd be a lot less teams striving to finish in the top 4 because the incentives aren't worth it.

That's how life works, if you work harder today then life is easier tomorrow, if you went to work and knew that no matter how hard you worked today it wouldn't benefit you in the future then you wouldn't bother working hard. However if you had the opportunity to do tomorrow's work today and thus have a day off tomorrow then you'd probably do it.

Or maybe you think the fat slob who sits in the corner scratching his arse and picking his nose should start from the same position as you the next day despite having done less work the day before?

I'd love to see how you'd react if at the end of every year all your promotions/pay rises were taken off you and you had to start back from the beginning, equal with all the new employees, as well as the weaker ones, and the lazier ones. </BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't just look at football totally from a business perspective like that though, it's a sport, it's supposed to be entertaining. Sport is not just about capitalism and money, it's important that it's kept competitive, even if that means interfering with it and not just leaving it to market forces. Public and media have every right to moan about this. </BLOCKQUOTE>

firstly try telling the shareholders it's not business the only reason it needs to be entertaining is to bring in more money, and guess what the new tv deal says it's more entertaining than ever.

secondly, sport is about competition not equality. These are professionals they spend their whole lives playing this 'sport', and put everything into it, you coming along and taking their hard earned positions of success off them because your not entertained enough is a bit selfish no?

come up with some sensible, legal, workable, enforceable suggestions and you might get somewhere.

retired_nini59

To take that analogy further, the problem currently is how would you react if you were working just as hard and well as the people in each of the three rungs of the ladder above you, but none of them were going to leave and you weren't able to either? So there was little or no chance of advancement however hard you worked.

I agree that the original ideas were nonsense, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem to some degree. </BLOCKQUOTE>

that's how life is, it's tough, if someone else got there first then you've got to either work harder to catch up, or accept your place. That's capitalism, the cream rises to the top, with ofc many exceptions. But in this case United are where they are through good management, yes they have money and support, but they had that before they were successful. Clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, and maybe others certainly have the support that if they were to achieve success in the future they could maintain it, and build up their support base too.

But it's a fact of life that this will get harder as time goes on, people in positions of power will do all they can to hold onto them and you've got to work harder than them and wait for them to make a mistake before you can overtake them.

I wouldn't go to the managing director of my company and say "I could do my supervisor's job just as well as him, even though he's doing his job quite well, so I think you should switch our roles for a bit". </BLOCKQUOTE>

Football really shouldn't be dominated by capitalism though? </BLOCKQUOTE>

well when your company takes it's profits made from football and splits them up amongst the fans, i.e. me, I'll listen to you. Until I get my cheque for my share of your wages though I'm going to ignore you.

retired_kpr

This is just something where we'll have to agree to disagree. I strongly believe that football is dominated too much by money now and that it shouldn't be treated like other businesses. People have serious emotional attachment to it and it's a massive part of our culture, it NEEDS interfering with, even if that interfering goes against principles of market forces and business. Having four big dominant banks is not a problem for most of the population because they have nothing to do with the smaller banks, having four dominant football clubs is a problem because it spoils things greatly for fans of all the other smaller teams.

retired_kris10nicole

There's a difference between being punished, and tweaking the level of reward. You don't have to give failing teams more money than successful teams to close the gap, simply decreasing the differential between the top 4 and the rest both gives a slightly more level playing field, and incentivises the well run clubs as you don't have to break into what is becoming a closed shop before you see improvement.

In terms of Spain, i don't watch spanish football so correct me if i'm wrong, but while Barca and Madrid are well ahead financially, isn't there much more movement between who gets the other one or two CL places, meaning again there's a way for the well run clubs to have access to the bigger competition and it's rewards?

retired_kpr

And yeah, you can't cite Spanish football, it's a lot more competitive than English football. In the last few years Sevilla, Real Sociedad and Osasuna have all come within one game of winning the title (might have been two in the case of Osasuna), and Villarreal look like they might be able to go the distance this year.

Possible solutions.

FIFA or the Premier League or the FA making Sky distribute their TV money more evenly throughout English football clubs.

Worldwide wage cap.

retired_kris10nicole

I'd be more inclined to move towards a slimmed down CL, with the consequence of a beefed up UEFA cup. With two tiers of european competition that actually make money for the clubs (although obviously still having more in the top competition), you'll have more variability with who gets into the CL, and real incentive and reward for teams to aim for the UEFA cup to be able to use it as a stepping stone, rather than it being the drain on resources and an excuse to roll out the 2nd string players.

Not saying any of that's remotely likely, by the way.

retired_kris10nicole

To take that analogy further, the problem currently is how would you react if you were working just as hard and well as the people in each of the three rungs of the ladder above you, but none of them were going to leave and you weren't able to either? So there was little or no chance of advancement however hard you worked.

I agree that the original ideas were nonsense, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem to some degree. </BLOCKQUOTE>

that's how life is, it's tough, if someone else got there first then you've got to either work harder to catch up, or accept your place. That's capitalism, the cream rises to the top, with ofc many exceptions. But in this case United are where they are through good management, yes they have money and support, but they had that before they were successful. Clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, City, Everton, and maybe others certainly have the support that if they were to achieve success in the future they could maintain it, and build up their support base too.

But it's a fact of life that this will get harder as time goes on, people in positions of power will do all they can to hold onto them and you've got to work harder than them and wait for them to make a mistake before you can overtake them.

I wouldn't go to the managing director of my company and say "I could do my supervisor's job just as well as him, even though he's doing his job quite well, so I think you should switch our roles for a bit". </BLOCKQUOTE>

Football really shouldn't be dominated by capitalism though? </BLOCKQUOTE>

well when your company takes it's profits made from football and splits them up amongst the fans, i.e. me, I'll listen to you. Until I get my cheque for my share of your wages though I'm going to ignore you. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I have literally no idea what point you're trying to make there.

retired_stesska

Let's try again.

La Cote D'Ivoire </BLOCKQUOTE>

Their best players could end up playing for Charlton :cool:

We have a few from ASEC out on loan at the moment, at least one in Belgium and a couple in Norway.

Millercj

The only thing that has really changed - in the late 80's it Was Liverpool and Everton. the difference was that teams like Watford, Southampton and Q.P.R. use to finish in the top 4.

Football in the UK is a snapshot of life here. English clubs are suceeding in the champions league again so all is ok.

Football (like UK life) is not designed for your entertainment. It is part of the system.

On a lighter note football is no different in other countries, before Lyon because France's powerhouse 11 teams won the League in 13 seasons.

Also the level of national team success is not always proportional to openeness of the league. Russia is a split between CSKA, Lokomotiv and Spartak (and are succeding) whilst the Polish Ekstraklasa is wide open, and could be won by one of 6 or so teams. Despite the national team
achieving.