[Maple]

Originally posted by Turambar:
You lot seriously believe that the next card on the top of the deck during a hand changes based on what players do?

Of course user input will be used in the generation of random numbers but once the deck is "shuffled" at the start of a hand, the order of the cards will be fixed. It makes no sense at all to program it the other way.

It's perfectly feasible instead of randomizing the whole deck before the hand to randomize one card at a time out of the "unused" cards. I'm not they do it that way but it certainly is possible.

[Maple]

Originally posted by Maple:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Turambar:
You lot seriously believe that the next card on the top of the deck during a hand changes based on what players do?

Of course user input will be used in the generation of random numbers but once the deck is "shuffled" at the start of a hand, the order of the cards will be fixed. It makes no sense at all to program it the other way.

It's perfectly feasible instead of randomizing the whole deck before the hand to randomize one card at a time out of the "unused" cards. I'm not SAYING they do it that way but it certainly is possible. </BLOCKQUOTE>

[Rekwob Toille]

look, the guy who ran the poker society at my uni a few years back is a poker room manager at a online site and thats how their software does it. not all places do, but most do to guard against any kind of cheating.

there is no deck

[san]

Originally posted by Turambar:
You lot seriously believe that the next card on the top of the deck during a hand changes based on what players do?

Of course user input will be used in the generation of random numbers but once the deck is "shuffled" at the start of a hand, the order of the cards will be fixed. It makes no sense at all to program it the other way.

What's easiest to program? Take 52 numbers, pick cards from them at random using a random number generator and use that card as the next card, deleting it from the remaining "deck", or assigning the deck a particular order for the entire hand? I know which method I'd write given the task.

Further, as Rekwob said, having a pre shuffled deck could lead to serious cheating if a hacker found a way to get the deck information.

[Turambar]

Originally posted by Rekwob Toille:
look, the guy who ran the poker society at my uni a few years back is a poker room manager at a online site and thats how their software does it. not all places do, but most do to guard against any kind of cheating.

there is no deck

Good point. I'm not trying to speak for every poker site on the net but the ones I have looked into on this issue mention both a PRNG algorithm and a Shuffling one. There'd be no need to mention how they Shuffle the deck if a virtual deck did not exist.

From the Busgy's Club website:

"The Shuffle:

BugsysClub Poker uses an incremental Knuth shuffle. The problem some other sites have noted with the Knuth shuffle (introduction of a bias towards lower numbers) is actually a problem with their random_range function used to generate a number between 0 and 51 from the number their PRNG gave them, which is why they needed to shuffle several times. "

Originally posted by San:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Turambar:
You lot seriously believe that the next card on the top of the deck during a hand changes based on what players do?

Of course user input will be used in the generation of random numbers but once the deck is "shuffled" at the start of a hand, the order of the cards will be fixed. It makes no sense at all to program it the other way.

What's easiest to program? Take 52 numbers, pick cards from them at random using a random number generator and use that card as the next card, deleting it from the remaining "deck", or assigning the deck a particular order for the entire hand? I know which method I'd write given the task.

Further, as Rekwob said, having a pre shuffled deck could lead to serious cheating if a hacker found a way to get the deck information. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing that you've some programming experiance?

From an Object Oriented perspective it's much easier to have a Card object(with value and suit) and a Deck object (containing Card object data members) that has Shuffle and Deal methods. The other method you suggest would be a more procedural based one. For example generating a random number each time a card is needed then linking that number to a card, then checking to see if the card is already dealt and so on.

Good points with regards to security though. But most sites would used heavy encrytion to store this information so by the time a cracker has it and has decryted it, it'll be too late to use.

[Craig0]

Originally posted by TopToffee:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Craig0:
Which professional poker player commentator was it that doesn't have no clue what he is talking about, TopToffee?

i've no idea who it was - didn't even realise there was more than one person doing the commentary.

however, anyone who, in their supposed "expert" advice claims that you should NEVER play suited connectors, can't really lay claim to the term. obviously they're cards that should only be played in certain circumstances, and in a certain way - but to advise "non beginners" (as that is who the advice was at least claimed to be aimed at) is ridiculous.

also, the number of times he completely misreads hands is incredible for a "pro".

finally, asking "which professional poker player commentator" in such a pointed way - as if to say that because he is a pro, he's immune to criticism - is a bit daft. surely you've criticised professional footballers before? why is it different for poker players? </BLOCKQUOTE>

All of this "quote" stuff really makes you look like a bit of a fool.

The reason why I brought up the professional poker player comment was because you didn't seem to show any respect for what he was saying. Hey perhaps you could do a better job? I also brought up the comment because each of them have won a lot of money and have years of experience.

They are trying to advise new players how to play. You need some experience to be able to start playing many different starting hands like suited connectors, one gappers, small pairs, position profitably. I watch the show so I know full well they didn't say NEVER player suited connectors. Maybe they advised new players not to play them or said they do not often play them. I don't believe you when you say the advice was to non beginners, because most of the show is orientated that way. If you see the Diagnosis thing Dr Tom does at 3am you will see what I mean. but you are too "good" for the show, so don't worry about it.

A new player asks me they want to learn how to play, do you think I am going to start spouting off a bit of game theory to them and how to play 76s in MP? No I don't think I am. I am going to say stay tight and play your big hands for now and give them more info as they go on.

They may misread hands, but can you blame them? The software being used is ****? and after the showdown when all in the next hand is dealt almost straight away.

Also, they are playing SNGs and mainly low limits. My general strategy in these games is to play my good cards and steal. I am not going to be looking to play low suited connectors that much.

Of course "Professional Poker Players" are not immunie to "criticism", don't be so daft. But the "guy" who you think doesn't know what he is "talking" about obviously does if he plays cards profesionally and "wins". That is what I was trying to point out to "you".

Can you see how annoying all these quotation marks are?

But hey, I am biased because I like the show. Stick to the WSOP and the WPT and you may like tilt if/when it airs over here, you matador you.

[stevethedog]

You guys really have taken this poker playing to another level haven't you.

I feel so inadequate, going to play some bet365 just now though.

[matt_e]

Sometimes people baffle me. Why would you call an all-in for all your stack in Omaha with a board of 4,7,5,8,T (3 diamonds) with a pair of queens and nothing else

[Cobbler]

So, I've decided that I really like Bugsys. I opened an account there at the start of the month with $200 and, after just under 8 hours total playing 0.50/$1 NLHE have just about trebled it.

Highlight tonight was someone reraising me all-in on the river on a total bluff with three 5s on the board, and the other in my hand :thup:

[Ryno]

Fantastic Cobbler, good work. :thup: