retired_cglittergirl1967

I also tried the "Go on Holiday option" to test but the assistant manager had all the players back in there correct position within 15 games.

retired_cglittergirl1967

I will try it with another team but my original test had players playing in there correct positions and with the skills to do well in does positions and yet when the same players were put in positions they didn't have the skills to do well in they did just as well.

It does seem the points per game with the good team is the main problem but if my tactics or lack of them becasue i didn't make any effort for the test was the problem then it should have equally been a problem or even more so when the whole team was switched aroud. The formation was still the same but the players playing in different positions.

My good team underformed but can anyone give a plausible reason why my bad team didn't also. Rememeber there the exact same players with the exact same formation/tactics/morale etc.. for each game.

18 matches is a long time for no difference to show between the good and bad teams. Some people might worry about the consquences if they had to play 1 player out of position for the 2nd half of a match but yet i played a whole team out of position for 18 matches and they actually got 1 point more than when they were in position.

retired_asoto20

maybe i am just slow...
With this test you are proving that wherever you play a player, he will preform the same,bottom line?.
If that is the fact, maybe go to bugs forum, and leave some files for mods to look at?.

Kinda strange test,you should test it with other teams, and if the results are the same with any team, at any level, you might even have a point.Personally i would never play my whole team out off position at any stage.

Mikey JS

Funnily enough, when I got fed up with FM08 I performed the same test and a similar thing happened. I actually got some better results by shoving reserve players in out of position and having an outfield player in goal. Although long-term I doubt this would get you very far.

It does make you wonder though. As I said in another thread - player attributes seem to count for little in this game. Results are dictated by team talks, player morale, and other silly, non consequential things.

I mean look at Wenger, apparently he never says anything to his players at half time - just one or two small comments. The players are professional, they will give their best - they know what they have to do. A half-time team talk is not really going to make that much difference, especially compared to a couple of well chosen substitutions or a tactical change.

retired_nashfine

Talking of realism if in real life you put walcott in defence I would still expect him to get in the way of on coming shots.

The sheer quality of the Arsenal team will allow them to score goals no matter where that player is playing.

Any defender can play upfront. Perhaps not scoring a lot of goals but they can put themself about, and striker can player midfield just with less tackling and probably more shooting. In essence any player can play anywhere just not to the same quality as their correct positions.

I am not surprised by your results. You really need to use teams of varying skill levels to test properly.

retired_cglittergirl1967

You contradicted yourself there. You say your not surprised by the results but also say the players wouldn't play to the same quality as there correct positions. I thought i was pretty clear but the players did play as well out of position as they did in there correct postions. If you look at the player attributes even for Arsenal who some seem to think are super human the defenders don't have good attcking stats and the forwards don't have good defending stats yet they played as well there as they did in there correct position.

It doesn't matter what team it is, the match engine according to SI is supposed to reflect the players skills. When a striker with bad defending stats defends as well as he attacks, and a defender with bad attacking stats attacks as well as he defends then this is clearly not the case. The players seem to play to there overall level rather than individual skills. That is my point and playing with a team of varying skill levels won't prove otherwise.

retired_cglittergirl1967

I agree totally especially about what decides the results of matches. SI seems to give more weight to a team talk(which is ridiculous) than players playing were there good at. This would also explain why my good team underperformed. I didn't do team talks but i also didn't do them for the crap team.

retired_nashfine

No I didnt, my point was quite clear. Your good team was underperforming anyway 23 points and -2 goal difference with your "good team" is terrible with Arsenal.

You have not gone on to mention anything regarding tactics either.

So, 1. no I am not surprised by your results. 2. Playing all your players out of position for a season you will not achieve the same success as playing all your players in position properly.

retired_sknoll

having read evryones input into this, i think some peeps are missing the point. Point is, that playing players out of position should make a big difference. The simple fact that player A is a striker and player B is centre half. If you swop the two around it should have an adverse effect. Forget anything else, the mere fact that the positioning of a striker/defender are different. Ever heard of the endless stories that "Ashley cole keeps on getting caught out of position!!" he would most of the time be caught of of position, and that was his "natural" position. (i am talking about his earlier days, when he just started to play for England). It took Cole years to improve his postioning a left back, and then Nick is placing a whole team in wrong positions and they are still getiing results!! I donk care how good a team (or arsenal in this instance) are, there is no way they could get the results they are getting. If arsenal play derby county next week, and Wenger puts the team out as Nick did, they would get battered, no matter how crap derby are (and they are crap!!), derby would still win. Just because a player is fast/good shooting power doesnt neccessarily mean he will be able to play in a totally un-accustomed position. That is the understanding that i have/had. I wouldnt dream of playin a player out of position.. the reason...because i thought the game would slaughter me for it, the player would be exploited by the opposition e.t.c. If it is indeed true that position of players makes no difference then i am truly deeply saddened, as for me FM is the ultimate footie management game

firefighterhilf

Personally I think that, in the long run, players do underperform when playing out of position.
I do agree though that playing a whole team out of position should have a big impact. Unfortunately your 'experiment' shows little in it's current form, especially since the majority of the games you played were friendlies.

What you need to do is get a mid-table team, say Blackburn, and play a full season as you would normally with all players in their strongest positions where possible.

Now start the same game again with the same team and make every effort to play the players completely out of position for a full season. Now compare the finishing positions of the two different teams. If they are similar then you definitley have a point and the basis for a good discussion. I personally think that you'll struggle a lot in the second game but would be interested to find out.