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Old 11-28-2007, 02:43 PM   #1
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Default Improving the Role of the Assistant Manager: Tactical Advice and Observations

This is my second instalment about how I feel the role of the Assistant Manager could be improved. The first one was about the training report and can be found here: http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6552013463

Match Advice and Observations

Now for this post, one of the biggest problems people have with the game is with the ambiguity of the tactics, many people just don’t completely understand how to use them. This is one of the reasons why I think it is now time for the gamer to have the option of receiving advice from the Assistant Manager. This suggestion is based on something that has been discussed many times and from a personal point of view, I was very surprised there was nothing like it in FM08. This is my personal opinion on how it should be implemented....

First of all, this feature should be optional, many people will prefer to do it by themselves rather than get assistance and so it should not be forced upon them. On the manager options screen you should be able to choose on of three options:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>“Make advice and observations available during a match by request” –Choosing this match will mean that at any time during a match you are able to click on a “Request advice” button above the tactics button. The Ass Man will then give you any advice or observations he has (if any). He will not say anything unless you click on the button though. I will explain in more detail how the advice is given later on in the post.
<LI>“Receive advice and observations during a match automatically.” – Choosing this option would mean that you automatically receive the assistance at any time during the match, you will also be able to request advice by pressing the button as mentioned above.
<LI>“Receive no match advice or observations at all” – This option would mean you do not and cannot get any advice during the match. This is for anyone who doesn’t even want the temptation of getting any help. The “Request advice” button would be greyed out.
</UL>
Now for how the advice is given, after clicking the button the screen will change so that the pitch goes slightly smaller and a box appears below with anything the Ass Man wants to tell you. There will also be another box that has two options; “Return to Match” and “Change Tactics”. The match will also be played in full until you leave the advice screen. In other words it will work in a similar way to how it does when you click to change tactics.

If you are receiving the advice automatically then at various times during the match a window will pop up at the bottom of the screen and remain for a few seconds. This window will say the in one line what advice the Ass Man has to say, if you click on this window it will go to the advice screen where you will get more detail. You would also be able to close the window straight away. Obviously it should be done so that when this window appears it does not cover up any of the pitch. You would only receive advice automatically a few times a match and only at appropriate times, e.g. if there is 3 mins left and you are leading 5 -0 he won’t advise you how to get another goal.

The above suggestion on how you receive the advice is my personal opinion and I am still not convinced it is the right way. Any feedback or better suggestions would be very much welcome.

As for the actual advice and observations, it will not be written like instructions for the gamer, e.g. it will not say “move the width slider two notches to the right” or “select the counter attack option”. Instead it will read as if it is like a real life match and you are talking to the Assistant. Some things that might be said are; “The opposition is playing a very narrow game, we can do with copying them if we are to hold onto the lead” and “If we are to get back into this we need to start playing more directly”. He would even comment on individual players when appropriate, for example, “the opposition left back seems to be injured” or “Our striker is looking very tired, we can do with substituting him”.

As well as receiving this help whilst the match is being played there would also be a screen before the match and at half time positioned along with the tactics, team talk and opposition instructions. This screen will say similar things to earlier although at these times there will be slightly more said and it will be worded to suit the time. For example at half time instead of commenting on what is happening he would say “We have been playing too many long balls, the opposition will be ready for them in the second half”.

The detail and accuracy of what you are told would depend on the Ass Man’s attributes as well as his preferences (where it says what type of formation he likes to play etc...) This would mean that it is necessary to pick a good assistant if you are to take advantage of his help. Otherwise, you could end up with advice that in the end makes things even worse. There are also other things that could effect how good the advice is but that is a new idea from me and I will discuss it next time.

Finally, after the match you currently get very little feedback about what happened. Apart from a media message there isn’t really anything. IRL however a match will be reviewed and lessons will be learnt from it, especially in the higher leagues. The most obvious way to have this in the game would be to add an analysis tool like Prozone in CM (although I personally wouldn’t like to see the whole of it put in). For the time being though I think the following is a decent compromise if it is possible.

Basically, it would be very similar to a scout’s report on your next opponent except it would the Ass Man’s report on the last match. In it he will mention things such as the following:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Who had good or bad performances in the match and why, e.g. morale, good tactic etc...
<LI>What type of tactic we used, e.g. direct, patient, counter attack etc... and whether he feels it was the correct way to play.
<LI>What he feels could have been done better in relation to the tactics.
<LI>Any key stats that stand out and what he thinks that suggests. For example, “We gave away a lot of fouls because we were playing a physical game, however, because we were against vastly superior opposition that was the right decision”.
<LI>His thoughts on the formation, good or bad.
<LI>The oppositions tactics and what problems they caused for us.
</UL>
If a post match report like this could be added along with a few more stats then it would improve the analysis side of things a lot. The last 4 reports should also be viewable in the assistant’s profile and you should be able to save it as a note as well.
To get this whole feature to work properly would take a lot of work and I wouldn’t expect it all to be done at once but rather a progressive addition over a few releases, probably starting with the advice before the match and half time. I do think that eventually it could be something great that improves the game a lot. It would make it more realistic and also help people when they need it, sort of an alternative to difficulty levels which would not be suitable for FM.

When FM08 was announced some people commented on the absence of a feature like this, someone from SI (can’t remember who) replied by saying that “the game should not tell you what to do” but IMO this feature would not. Instead, it would guide you, it is up to the gamer to decide what action to take, and it is an optional feature.

Now criticise at will
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:14 PM   #2
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Default Improving the Role of the Assistant Manager: Tactical Advice and Observations

Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Wright's Championship Medal:
You could also have it so that if you get advice from the assistant but never act on it, he would start considering his future due to feeling his contribution is not valued
There is something similar to that coming up in my next topic, although not directly linked to this it is about making the assistant a bit more human.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:29 PM   #3
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good post Llyody
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:23 PM   #4
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OK, I loved your "Assistant Manager: Training Reports" thread. Here I find things that I like and things that I don't.

As I see, your suggestion here comes into two parts, a) the real-time match suggestions and b) post match report:

a) I don't like the real-time match suggestions, and, tbh, I don't think it can be implemented successfully in FM. As the match-engine gets tweaked with every release and every patch, what works and what doesn't changes each and every time. It's nearly impossible for SI to update the Ass Man advice accordingly: Not only is it a huge task, but often the match engine changes in ways that not even SI anticipated (strange formations that work, normal formations that don't, crossing may be especially effective or ineffective on some specific release etc).

So, this is bound to end up with the Ass Man giving wrong advice, as far as I can guess.

b) The post-match report is a good idea, and it is certainly something that SI have to be looking into, especially since Championship Manager has incorporated the excellent ProZone report in its game: SI needs to fight back!

The question is, what is the best way to fight back? To tell you the truth, ProZone will be difficult to beat. But your suggestion of post-match reports should be a step in the right direction.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:05 PM   #5
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Lyssien,

I split it into two like you did

a)I understand what you are saying but I have to disagree, the current AI enables an opposition manager to decide what tactics to use and to also adapt to your tactics. The assistant's AI would not have to be much superior to this IMO.

Also, although the match engine does change greatly in every version, I am not expecting the Ass Man to create a super tactic but to just have simple observations which should apply to any match engine that is realistic.

AI is always improving as well, and as I have said earlier, I am not expecting this to all be done in one version and be perfect, it would have a progressive development and be worked on continually.

I know that some people wouldn't want this feature and that is why it should/would be optional. Going of these forums though there are many people who would like something such as this and I personally feel it would do wonders for the game in terms of realism, fun and enabling gamers of all ability to play FM.

b)I agree with you that SI need to be looking into things like this and as I said, this would not be the perfect solution but rather a compromise until something better comes along.

I do not however agree that Prozone is so perfect, in my experience a lot of it is unnecessary and over-complex. Although it is something to use as a guide, SI should not use it as the target.

Thanks for the comments :thup:
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:51 PM   #6
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LFC Lloydy, I couldn't agree with you more. I think this is definitely the direction to take it: I wish the game taught tactics, for Americans and children who may not have the tactical sophistication of a Benitez or a Mourinho just yet.

In real life, a manager is not "on an island", he has lots of people he can ask for advice.

I think what you suggest has a lot of potential; I'm particularly pleased with the post-match, half-time, and pre-match idea.

I've suggested similar:

See In-character 'helpful suggestions'

and also: New Media Items and Improved Feedback Ideas

We've also hashed out, in previous threads, some approaches to most of the usual complaints about this (making the game too easy, making the game a rote 'follow his instructions and win' piece, etc). (See Metaphysical Angst in FM: Complexity and Uncertainty in Management for the best discussion of this.)
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #7
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"The detail and accuracy of what you are told would depend on the Ass Man’s attributes as well as his preferences (where it says what type of formation he likes to play etc...) This would mean that it is necessary to pick a good assistant if you are to take advantage of his help. Otherwise, you could end up with advice that in the end makes things even worse."

For me this is very important. Otherwise the AM would be far too powerful. Like the super scouts in FM2007 who can discover 5 or 6 wonderkids who will turn out to be world beater later
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:05 PM   #8
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I think that's sort of a given, andyinuk; making sure the feedback isn't a "paint by numbers" solution for the user is a given.

I'd want to avoid having the AM's advice *intentionally* lead the user astray, though - that would be extremely frustrating, and I can just imagine the forum threads about it. I think the solutions to the problem outlined in "Metaphysical Angst in FM" give you the same limits on AM power that you're looking for, without misleading the user.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:45 AM   #9
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Amaroq,
Thanks for the links to the other threads, what I have read in them so far has been interesting, especially the last link which explains my thoughts in a far better way than I can. :thup:

I would echo your comments (and andyinuk) on not making it a "paint by numbers" as you say. With regards to what I said about the Ass Man not getting everything spot on, I understand what you say about not intentionally leading someone astray. I think the perfect solution lies somewhere between both extremes, that is only really something that could be decided if such a feature was tested though.

One of my hopes for the future though is that the Ass Man (and other non-playing staff) gain a little more individuality and that is why I would want some people to be better at advising you than others. However, that is something I will talk about another time.

To end, I would like to quote what you said,

"In real life, a manager is not "on an island", he has lots of people he can ask for advice. "

This sums up the reason behind these ideas pefectly. Yes the manager is paid to make the decisons but that doesn't mean he has no support.

Including "advice" in either a similar way to my suggestions or in another way would not only make it more realistic but also prevent gamers from being pushed away from FM because of its ambiguity. That is why it is one of the things I would most like to see in the game.
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