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Old 09-06-2007, 10:07 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #1
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Default CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege

Hi everyone, not sure if it's legal to post here, being as this story takes place in the world of Championship Manager 1997/98. It is a Sports Interactive title though!

Anyway, if I'm in the wrong place please can a mod redirect me...

Leagues Running: Belgium, Germany and Holland.
Chosen Team: Standard Liege (Belgium First Division)
Stadium: Stadium Schlessin
Capacity: 23,944 (13,294 seats)
Bank Balance: £4,935,000

I have decided to take control of Standard Liege, one of the larger clubs in Belgium, with the goal of domestic domination and European success over the game period (20 or 30 seasons allegedly).

Season One
I had no knowledge of the club's best performers at the start so I gave everyone a chance to impress in my 5-3-2 attacking formation. I did, however make a few modest signings: a free experienced Belgian MC, a free young Scottish MC and a £150k central defender from Denmark.

Things started well with a 3-0 win. Mbo Mpenza seemed to be a colossus. His preferred postion is FR but I played him as one of my central midfielders running out to the right wing. He has power, pace, creativity, determination, technique - everything you'd need to make a good player. But would he be consistent?

A few games later I had an idea of who my strionger and weaker players were. The weaker ones (particularly defenders who couldn't jump, postion themselves well or head the ball) were all transfer listed. The team was pretty inconsistent so I brought in a free Portuguese AMC and spent £1m on a young FR/C who had scored and created lots of goals in Holland so far that season.

It didn't make too much of a difference as a series of draws amd defeats left us dropping between first and fourth in the league. I was getting fairly alarmed at this point because the teams below us were catching us and the teams above us were pulling away. Another Dutch striker was brought in on loan to try to improve our goal scoring ratio but it didn't make much difference. I looked deeper into the qualities of my players and found that the squad was seriously lacking in determination, meaning that when we fell behind we failed to get back into the game. Heads were dropping far too often.

Frustrating inconsistency meant that we eventually finished 6th in the league. A 1-0 win over Antwerp in the Belgian Cup was a rare pleasure and made up a little for our poor league form. The board were pleased anyway.

In other competitions:

European Cup
Real Madrid 0-3 Man Utd
(Solskjaer 4, 76, Seedorf OG 87)
Luz, Lisbon 90,294

UEFA Cup
Udinese 1-5 Nantes
(Poggi 21) (N'Diaye 30, 53, 65, 78, Savinaud 72)
Amsterdam Arena 51,138

Cup Winners' Cup
Chelsea 1-0 Betis
(Zola 26)
Westfalenstadion, Dortmund 53,837

Belgian First Division:

POS TEAM PL WN DR LS GS GA PT
01. Anderlecht 34 22 08 04 69 28 74
-------------------------------------
02. Lierse 34 19 07 08 53 24 64
03. Gent 34 18 09 07 49 24 63
04. Antwerp 34 17 08 09 47 38 59
05. RWDM 34 15 12 07 46 21 57
06. Standard 34 17 06 11 46 36 57
07. Club Brugges 34 15 09 10 42 24 54
08. Aalst 34 15 08 11 48 43 53
09. Mouscron 34 15 07 12 42 32 52
10. Harelbeke 34 13 09 12 49 38 48
11. Lommel 34 13 07 14 45 48 46
12. Charleroi 34 11 10 13 35 48 43
13. Ger. Ekeren 34 09 11 14 31 35 38
14. Lokeren 34 07 12 15 22 42 33
15. Beveren 34 09 06 19 28 55 33
16. Genk 34 07 08 19 39 55 29
-------------------------------------
17. Westerlo 34 04 12 18 18 42 24
18. Sint-Truiden 34 04 03 27 19 95 15

As you can see we finished sixth. Sint-Truiden were the whipping boys, yet we only managed to beat them 3-0 at our place and 3-2 at theirs.

Aims for next season were to improve our defence and bring in better attacking players. More goals, fewer conceded. All areas needed improving and more determined players needed to be brought in. A summer of recruitment was about to start. All of my goalkeepers retired, along with three other squad players.

One other result to tell you about:

World Cup Final
Brazil 1-0 Italy
(Rai 43)
Stade de France 53,498

One fascinating piece of news that came up at the end of the season was the following, word for word:

"Anderlecht banned from European Competition for season 1998-99 after being found guilty of paying a referee before the 1985 UEFA Cup Semi Final against Nottingham Forest".

I'd never seen that message before and was surprised but glad because it meant Anderlecht missed out on the chance to enhance their reputation in the European Cup, where they could have made millions and brought in far better players to strengthen their already tight grip on the league.

How would Standard Liege fare next season? 1998/99 to follow...
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:36 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #2
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Hey, welcome to the forum, you're in the right place. I don't think you're the only one writing a CM97/98 story, though CM01/02 seems to be more popular for "throwback" tales.

I recommend you use the {CODE} tags (well, with [ instead of {, you can also get to them with that little icon that looks like </> at the far right of the menu) for formatting your table, things like respecting your 'spaces'. For example:


<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">POS TEAM PL WN DR LS GS GA PT01. Anderlecht 34 22 8 4 69 28 74-----------------------------------------02. Lierse 34 19 7 8 53 24 6403. Gent 34 18 9 7 49 24 6304. Antwerp 34 17 8 9 47 38 5905. RWDM 34 15 12 7 46 21 5706. Standard 34 17 6 11 46 36 5707. Club Brugges 34 15 9 10 42 24 5408. Aalst 34 15 8 11 48 43 5309. Mouscron 34 15 7 12 42 32 5210. Harelbeke 34 13 9 12 49 38 4811. Lommel 34 13 7 14 45 48 4612. Charleroi 34 11 10 13 35 48 4313. Ger. Ekeren 34 9 11 14 31 35 3814. Lokeren 34 7 12 15 22 42 3315. Beveren 34 9 6 19 28 55 3316. Genk 34 7 8 19 39 55 29-----------------------------------------17. Westerlo 34 4 12 18 18 42 2418. Sint-Truiden 34 4 3 27 19 95 15</pre>
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:43 AM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #3
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Welcome to the forum, MM As Amaroq said, you;re definitely in the right place, we welcome stories based on any of the SI football management titles.

CM97/98 was the version of the game which hooked me in, so I have a certain nostalgic love for it. Good luck with the story
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:07 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #4
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Cool, thanks for your advice guys. I was appalled at the state of my table when I made my first post... it looked so good before I submitted it .

The next instalment will follow at some point this weekend. The great thing about CM97/98 is that you can do a whole season in half a day :cool:.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:14 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #5
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LoL, no worries, happens to everybody I suspect. You can use the Off Topic Thread as a test-bed if you want to, to get familiar with table-posting.

Oh, and like Terk said, good luck with the tale!
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:37 AM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #6
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Ah, this is the stuff. I would have been a far better student/son had CM97/98 never existed. 01/02 might have bettered it a while later, but for a while it was the greatest game in the world.
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:27 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #7
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Season Two: 1998/99

An enormous overhaul of the playing squad occurred in pre-season. Many players were sold or released and my own replacements were brought in for modest amounts; mainly free youngsters recommended by my scouts. I was optimistic about our chances for the forthcoming campaign but the lack of performance last year gave me a tinge of anxiety.

First up was the Belgian Super Cup (the league champions Anderlecht against the cup winners Standard Liege). We battled well throughout, playing with an attacking 5-3-2 formation from the previous season, albeit with direct passing now as opposed to a mixed passing style. The game finished 1-1, Anderlecht scoring an equaliser in the 91st minute, and we went on to lose 5-4 on penalties.

The first game of the league season started well with a 3-0 win away at Charleroi. Six new signings started the game, including a Russian international goalkeeper on £10k per week (more than double that of my other better players - I felt I needed to pay whatever it took to get a "quality" goalkeeper in) My new Danish international striker signed from PSV Eindhoven in Holland scored a hat-trick on his debut.

Things started to go a bit awry in the cup competitions. We were knocked out of the Cup Winners' Cup convincingly by Portuguese club Boavista 3-1 on aggregate (beaten 1-0 away and 2-1 at home) in the first round, and were also knocked out of the Belgian Cup at the first hurdle by Club Brugge, who beat us 1-0 at our place. The board were disappointed on both fronts, and so was I.

League form stuttered at times, so I changed to a direct passing 4-3-1-2 formation (the basic attacking 4-3-3 but with the central striker playing "in the hole"). It worked its magic, our misfiring attack started scoring and we endud up finishing second to defending champions Anderlecht:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">POS TEAM PL W D L GS GA PTS01. Anderlecht 34 26 04 04 67 22 82---------------------------------------------02.Standard Liege34 22 06 06 68 26 7203. Lierse 34 21 08 05 56 21 7104. Antwerp 34 21 03 10 57 31 6605. Club Brugge 34 20 05 09 61 36 6506. Mouscron 34 16 07 11 56 42 5507. Gent 34 15 07 12 47 35 5208. Ger. Ekeren 34 13 11 10 37 30 5009. Waregem 34 12 11 11 43 39 4710. Mechelen 34 13 06 15 59 61 4511. RWDM 34 13 06 15 45 58 4512. Aalst 34 13 04 17 35 56 4313. Genk 34 09 11 14 40 41 3814. Lokeren 34 07 11 16 39 58 3215. Lommel 34 09 05 20 27 54 3216. Charleroi 34 07 07 20 28 53 28---------------------------------------------17. Beveren 34 03 08 23 24 75 1718. Harelbeke 34 03 06 25 27 78 15</pre>
Our league record had improved loads from last year:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">97/98 Standard P34 W17 D6 L11 F46 A36 PTS5798/99 Standard P34 W22 D6 L6 F68 A26 PTS72 </pre>

I felt we were on the right track but there was still plenty of room for improvement.

In other competitions:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> European Cup Real Madrid 1-2 Ajax(Raul 86) (Alfonso 10, Reuser 31)Olympiastadion, Germany 66,827</pre>

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">[B]UEFA Cup[B]Liverpool 3-2 Marseille(Fowler 14, 39, (Roy 13, 90) McAteer 87)Antas, Portugal 75, 761</pre>

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">[B] Cup Winners' Cup[B]Milan 5-2 Nantes(Weah 9, (Le Paith 38, N'Diaye 45) Savicevic 45, 60, 89, Leonardo pen 82)Olympic Stadium, Italy 57,567</pre>

In the close season another 8 players were brought in for an extra £1,890,000. Our final league placing of 2nd meant that next season we would play in the Champions League qualifying round for a lucrative place in the group stages.

Could we make the final push for a first Belgian title? How would we get on in Europe? Find out next time...
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Old 09-16-2007, 11:19 AM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #8
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Season Three: 1999/00

[b]Bank Balance:[B] £3,231,000

We started the season by losing in the Belgian Super Cup 4-2 on penalties after a 2-2 draw with Anderlecht. I wasn't too disheartened because we played quite well at times and I knew Anderlecht were a far better team.

Next came the European Cup qualifying round, where we beat FC Kobenhaven of Denmark 6-3 on aggregate to get through to the group stages, where we would meet Italian giants Juventus, Danish side Brondby and PSV from Holland. A baptism of fire awaited.

Dodgy 'Keeper
I was, however, concerned about the performances of my high-earning Russian goalkeeper who, despite his international pedigree, never seemed to save one-on-ones. I needed to look for replacements, and ended up bringing in a couple of consistent performers from the lower Belgian leagues. They looked quite good but would need time to settle - but I needed them to settle right away. Time would also tell if they could handle the pressure of playing for one of Belgium's biggest clubs.

Big-Club Release Clause
The scourge of the big-club release clause bit me hard, as PSV made off with my start defender - a 19 year-old Dutchman signed on a free the previous season - after a tribunal said they'd have to pay me £2,100,000; and Benfica robbed my prolific Spanish Under-21 target man and lethal finisher for £2,800,000. Both players were initially signed for free, so it was all profit. But it would be hard to replace them, and any new signings would be ineligible for Europe until the quarter finals stage. That was no good for me.

[b]The Group Stages[B]
The games were very, very tough and the loss of a key defender and key striker hit us hard. With the one or two new defenders I'd signed ineligible, we just had to tough it out with the relatively weak squad we had and try to snatch a couple of results.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Team P W D L GF GA PTS1. Juventus 6 6 0 0 17 2 182. PSV 6 3 0 3 12 11 9------------------------------------3. Standard 6 1 1 4 3 10 44. Brondby 6 1 1 4 6 15 4</pre>

We had no cutting edge up front and leaked far too many goals to be competitive. None of my goalkeepers were performing well at all.

Frustrating Season
The rest of the season was incredibly frustrating from my point of view. Our form was so inconsistent for most of the year; I couldn't be confident that we would beat anyone because teams I thought we should beat were giving us a pasting.

I changed my tactics slightly to make us less gung-ho, and our form improved for thr last three months of the season as we climbed the table to claim and cement second place:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Team P W D L GF GA PTS01. Anderlecht 34 27 02 05 77 25 83--------------------------------------------02. Standard 34 24 01 09 76 41 7303. Club Brugge 34 19 09 06 57 21 6604. Antwerp 34 19 05 10 51 34 6205. Lierse 34 17 06 11 55 39 5706. Gent 34 15 11 08 50 33 5607. RWDM 34 16 06 12 47 45 5408. Waregem 34 14 08 12 50 52 5009. Charleroi 34 14 04 16 37 40 4610. Tongeren 34 11 11 12 42 43 4411. Mechelen 34 12 07 15 43 48 4312. Ger. Ekeren 34 10 09 15 35 46 3913. Mouscron 34 09 09 16 42 47 3614. Lommel 34 09 06 19 32 75 3315. Kortrijk 34 08 07 19 31 51 3116. Genk 34 07 10 17 27 51 31--------------------------------------------17. Aalst 34 06 11 17 39 65 2918. Lokeren 34 05 06 23 26 61 21 </pre>

Anderlecht continued their stranglehold on the Belgian First Division and the gap between them and ourselves was still too big.

Our achilles heel was our defence/goalkeeper. Conceding 41 goals in 34 games was nowhere near champions quality. This desperately needed to be sorted out for next season.

Our league performance since 1997/98 was as follows:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">97/98 Standard P34 W17 D6 L11 F46 A36 PTS5798/99 Standard P34 W22 D6 L6 F68 A26 PTS7299/00 Standard P34 W24 D1 L9 F76 A41 PTS73 </pre>

As you can see above, since the start of my career I had found a way to win more games, score more goals and get more points, but the defensive part of our game was inconsistent. I was optimistic, though, to see we'd made progress generally.

In the Belgian Cup Final we lost 3-0 to bogey team Club Brugge to finish the season trophyless.

[b]Other Competitions[B]

European Cup
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Ajax 0-2 Barcelona (Nielsen 48, Albelda 83)San Siro, Milan 83,079</pre>

UEFA Cup
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Bayern Munich 3-1 Lazio(Rizzitelli 21, 57, (Laslandes 40)Simone 54)Olympiastadion, Germany 67,914</pre>

Cup Winners' Cup
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Inter Milan 1-3 Athletic Bilbao(Zamorano 6) (Urzaiz 18, Ostenstad 52, 88)Weserstadion, Germany 39,769</pre>

European Championships 2000
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">France 1-0 Spain(Compan 74)Amsterdam Arena, Holland 65,237</pre>

Aims for Next Season
We had to strengthen all areas, particularly the defence and goalkeeper positions to make us harder to beat. Teams were getting through and scoring one-on-ones far too often. Some better results in the European Cup, should we qualify, would also be good for our reputation.

Would we close the gap on Anderlecht in season 2000//01? Would we qualify for the European Cup group stages? Find out next time...
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:46 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #9
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[b]Season Four: 2000/01[B]

The board decided we now had an increased following, so splashed out just under £500,000 buying an extra 1,310 seats for our stadium, taking the capacity to 25,254.

Belgium had slipped in the pecking order of European leagues, so despite finishing second again last season, we had to play not just one qualifying round but two!

The good news was that none of our players had big-club releases anymore, so I could hold onto all the players I wanted to. A raft of players were brought in to replace those I no longer wanted to keep as we started our European campaign.

First up we comfortably dispatched the Bulgarians CSKA Sofia 6-1 on aggregate in the preliminary round, before beating Kobenhaven for the second season in a row, this time 4-3 on aggregate in the qualifying round.

I made heavy reinforcements to our defence, bringing in some experienced Spanish and French central defenders to add pace and power, but they came in after the qualifying round so would be ineligible for Europe until the Quarter Finals again .

The Group Stages
We were drawn in the weakest group, containing Portugal's Benfica, Sweden's IFK Gothenburg and Yugoslavia's Red Star Belgrade. I fancied our chances and we ended up finishing second in the group. We recorded the biggest result in our brief Championship Manager history by beating Benfica 2-0 at their place in front of 77,553 fans.

Team P W D L GF GA PTS
1. Benfica 6 4 1 1 11 4 13
2. Standard 6 3 3 0 7 1 12
------------------------------------
3. IFK 6 1 2 3 4 6 5
4. Red Star 6 1 0 5 2 13 3

Tragically, we were robbed of a place in the quarter-finals by one point. I thought the top two would qualify for the knockout stages but it seems that the group winners plus the two best second-placed teams go through. We were pipped by Galatassary and Rangers, who'd amassed 13 points each to our 12. I was gutted, but our three wins had yielded £750,000 each and our three draws had brough in £250,000 each. A lucrative six matches!

I was also impressed at the fact that we'd conceded just one goal with essentially a third-choice defence. Perhaps the key point of the season was when I dropped my Russian goalkeeper permanantly for one of my Belgian goalkeepers from the previous season. The Belgian was so much more effective at rushing out and stopping one on ones, so he kept his place for the majority of the season.

The League
We started the season really sluggishly, languishing in the bottom half for probably the first quarter of the season, a consequence of us drawing many games and losing a couple. We had a mountain to climb early on to catch the pacesetters.

After a long and relentless pursuit of Antwerp (no, not Anderlecht, who really struggled this particular season), we finally went top of the league with two games to spare after our English striker on loan from Leeds scored an 89th minute winner away at mid-table RWDM to snatch a 1-0 victory.

We'd managed to claw back an eight point deficit and it was reminiscent of Manchester United overhauling Newcastle United in the Premier League all that time ago. Antwerp just fell apart. We ended up winning the league with one game to spare after we beat 16th place Tongeren 5-1 and Antwerp lost to rivals Club Brugge 3-0.

The battle for places two to four went right down to the wire. Antwerp, who'd led the championship for all but the last couple of games finished third behind Club Brugge, while Anderlecht, who'd had a terrible season by their standards, lost 2-0 away at Gent on the last day, which meant that Gent took 4th and left Anderlecht languishing in 5th:

Team P W D L GF GA PTS
01. Standard 34 23 06 05 70 27 75
-------------------------------------------
02. Club Brugge 34 23 02 09 69 33 71
03. Antwerp 34 21 08 05 61 25 71
04. Gent 34 18 12 04 45 17 66
05. Anderlecht 34 20 03 11 65 33 63
06. Lierse 34 16 07 11 49 34 55
07. Mouscron 34 15 09 10 42 37 54
08. Kortrijk 34 13 10 11 53 41 49
09. RWDM 34 13 08 13 41 40 47
10. Waregem 34 13 07 14 46 48 46
11. Mechelen 34 13 05 16 39 55 44
12. Turnhout 34 10 09 15 41 48 39
13. Ger. Ekeren 34 10 08 16 30 45 38
14. Genk 34 10 05 19 43 58 35
15. Charleroi 34 09 08 17 36 65 35
16. Tongeren 34 06 12 16 27 55 30
-------------------------------------------
17. Lommel 34 05 06 23 30 69 21
18. Oostende 34 03 05 26 24 81 14

The biggest shock of the year was Anderlecht's fall from grace. Was there a worrying trend for their supporters or was it just a fluke?
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> Year Pos Team P W D L GF GA PTS97/98 1st Anderlecht 34 22 08 04 69 28 7498/99 1st Anderlecht 34 26 04 04 67 22 8299/00 1st Anderlecht 34 27 02 05 77 25 8300/01 5th Anderlecht 34 20 03 11 65 33 63 </pre>
It seems that one of the main reasons for their poor finish was their defence. This was the first year they had conceded more than 28 goals and they also scored their fewest number of goals - both recipes for disaster. It would be interesting to see if they would strengthen both areas next season and whether they will regain form or slip deeper into the mire, leaving Club Brugge and Antwerp to mount a challenge to our title.

[b]Standard's League Record[B]
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Year Pos Team P W D L GF GA PTS97/98 6th Standard 34 17 06 11 46 36 5798/99 2nd Standard 34 22 06 06 68 26 7299/00 2nd Standard 34 24 01 09 76 41 7300/01 1st Standard 34 23 06 05 70 27 75</pre>
Again, we'd scored our highest number of points and our defence had tightened up significantly from last season, without sacrificing that many goals. We could now look to strengthen all areas of the team in a bid to retain our title. A push for the European Cup Quarter-Finals would be one of our goals next term.

[B]European Cup[B]
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Barcelona 1-0 Ajax(Figo 92)Olympiastadion, Germany 68,785</pre>

UEFA Cup
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Inter Milan 0-1 1860 Munich (Crespo 54)Old Trafford, Manchester 54,442</pre>

Cup Winners' Cup
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Stuttgart 1-0 Marseille(Graham 24)Guiseppe Meazza, San Siro 82,399</pre>

Transfers
Constant overhauling of the playing staff was paying dividends for Standard. My own eye for a player, combined with the opinion of my scouts had successfully resulted in the club's first Belgian League title. But we wouldn't stop there; we had our eyes on bigger prizes and the chance to become legends.

Future Goals
Now that I had completed stage one of my masterplan, my other goals were as follows:

1. Win the league every year to increase our reputation and chances of qualifying for the group stages of the European Cup - and the financial windfall that comes with it.

2. Build a 50,000 capacity stadium to allow us to pay higher wages and attract top stars. This would take many years.

3. Continue to unearth future stars for small sums of money.

4. Qualify for the European Cup Quarter-Finals.

Finances
Financially, we were in a pretty good state:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">INCOME 2000/01 1999/00 Season Ticket Sales £2,256,658 £2,105,068Gate Receipts £5,085,546 £4,424,456TV Revenue/Prize Money £4,000,000 £2,000,000Player Sales £5,725,000 £6,200,000Other Income £22,713 £21,138EXPENDITURE 2000/01 1999/00Player Wages £4,016,200 £2,944,125Player Bonuses £306,765 £208,505Player Purchases £3,035,000 £4,345,000Other Costs £1,333,881 £2,278,837PROFIT £11,065,505 £4,974,195 </pre>

Would Standard achieve the Manager's goals? Find out next time...
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:32 PM   CM 1997/98 - Standard Liege Post #10
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Congrats on the title! KUTGW!

Just so you know, we plebes don't have the ability to edit our own posts, but the mods do. If you notice that you've messed up a Bold tag, or some such, you can post a request in The Mod Requests Thread requesting they fix it. They've helped me out a hundred times at least, despite my best efforts not to bug them. (Note - they don't do grammar or spelling, unless it changes the semantic content of the sentence.)
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Phantom goal syndrome: I have noticed that, well, both myself and the AI...
02-15-2008 gubbs 3 02-15-2008 08:27 PM
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Media comments/Multiple choice: At times I seem to make a mistake on my selection...
01-31-2008 pyewackett 15 01-31-2008 11:36 PM
Carlos Queros
Carlos Queros: Ok, I can't remember how to spell his last name....
12-18-2007 Skunner 1 12-18-2007 04:59 AM
Any chance of an example of editing being shown on this site?
Any chance of an example of editing being shown on this site?: Marc Vaughn is there any chance of you showing us...
11-27-2007 LIVIforLife 4 11-27-2007 11:59 PM

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