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I don't think it is a tough debate at all. SI have set up and allowed the use of a forum for purpose of constructing fiction based around their games. They have also done this with the EHM forum, which implies that the company actually encourage people to do so. They are far from the only games company to do this.
For over seven years people have posted here stuff which may, if you are that way inclined, be considered offensive. Not once has anyone from the SI games company come in here and said, he guys we're afraid people might take offence at your stories. In fact I've only ever seen an SI guy in here bout twice in my life.
There are limits which for common decency should not be posted on this forum, I personally do not accept that anyone here has ever crossed those limits because if they had done, the forum regulars never mind the moderators would have shot them down in flames.
Amaroq, in my opinion you were wrong to censor your own story, but that's your choice. Just because you have done so does not make it an automatic choice for everyone else. Otherwise, as you say, we will end up with a very bland, and utterly pointless forum.
However if SI do wish us to stop posting anything even remotely controversial then they only have to come out and say so. I'm sure we could easily find somewhere else to post, and I'm equally sure there will still be some people to post the nice cozy, we won, we lost, we won, we lost type stories.
10-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #32
It is certainly is a interesting debate and in the end it comes down to this for me it is FICTION, just about every story in this forum is based on the FM or CM series of GAMES with real life names.
Of course there is a line which can be crossed, but in a fictional world can David Beckham sue me IRL for me writing about a fictional instance of him sleeping with someone else his marriage falling apart and then him getting the sack because of loose morals etc etc, i very much doubt it as the by the forum header being called Stories which more or less implies that these are fictional stories taken from the FM game.
If this is the case then maybe all stories in this forum may only be allowed to be told, if you untick real life players in the box.
Racial slurs or offensive material must be taken into context of the writing and story and aslong its reasonably responsably written then there can be no real problems.
Also past stories can be taken into account if someone has written 10 stories on this forum and in everyone of those stories if there is a series of bad racial slurs against one particular type of person then yes it should be looked at and maybe something done depending on context, but as this is a community of reasonably responsible people with good mods it should be self governed until such time as its proven that we cant do so.
Censorship and copyright are fine within reason, but must be taken into context of what this forum really is and thats fictional stories based on a effing game for christ's sake
Oops i took the lords name in vain someone censor that (actually as an atheist, i have crossed my own censorship boundries and thusly i will write no more)
10-01-2007, 08:01 PM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #33
FMS has always been self-policing, and the overt intercession of an 'outside' mod is a big deal around here. Is there a reason this matter wasn't simply referred to Mark and Terk? However inoccuous the initial intent, to come on to what the regulars here consider 'our patch', due to the time and effort, in many cases significant, that has been spent building up the community and the forum, and law down the law, however gently, is not going to be taken lightly.
Can we have some clarification please?
The clarification is simple, just because there is a moderator list at the top of the forum doesnt prevent other mods from moderating any subforum. Just as I dont object to others mods pointing things out in any of the subforums that I am listed.
There isnt a determined drive on removing anything that may be considered contentious, however there is a drive on keeping the whole "realm" of the forums under one common law. If complaints are made by the report post feature then any number of mods can intervene as they see fit. Sorry to say it, but it shouldnt make a difference if its an "outside" mod compared to an actual listed one, nor that the member is a "regular".
Its the direction that, unless SI decide to point out otherwise, the forums are going. I don't necessarily agree with all the commandments from above but equality of one member with another no matter what their time registered is one I do happen to agree with.
OTF, as it has been mentioned, will come down harder then others as SI turn their attention towards it after the initial "hit" of the forums which carry the FM/OOTP/EHM name.
10-02-2007, 01:00 AM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #34
(01 Oct) 15:04 PDT WASHINGTON - An elementary-school teacher who was dismissed after telling her class on the eve of the Iraq war that "I honk for peace" lost a U.S. Supreme Court appeal today.
The justices, without comment, denied a hearing to Deborah Mayer, who had appealed lower-court decisions upholding an Indiana school district's refusal to renew her contract in June 2003. The most recent ruling, by a federal appeals court in Chicago, said teachers in public schools have no constitutional right to express personal opinions in the classroom.
A teacher's speech is "the commodity she sells to an employer in exchange for her salary," the Seventh U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said in a 3-0 ruling in January."The Constitution does not enable teachers to present personal views to captive audiences against the instructions of elected officials."
The appellate ruling is binding only on federal courts in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, but is one of a series of recent decisions taking a narrow view of free speech for teachers, other government employees and public-school students.
The Supreme Court ruled in June that an Alaska principal was entitled to suspend a student who had unfurled a banner outside the school reading "Bong Hits 4 Jesus," a message that the principal said promoted drug use. Last year the court ruled that government employees were not protected by the First Amendment when speaking at work about job-related controversies, a ruling that the appeals court applied to teachers in Mayer's case.
Mayer, who now teaches sixth grade in Florida, was distraught.
"I don't know why anybody would want to be a teacher if you can be fired for saying four little words," she said today. "I'm supposed to teach the Constitution to my students. I'm supposed to tell them that the Constitution guarantees free speech. How am I going to justify that?"
The case is Mayer vs. Monroe County Community School Corp., 06-1657.
I thought of you immediately, PM.
10-02-2007, 01:35 AM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #35
Not convinced it's actually the same issue, and whilst sacking may be harsh - would depend on her record I suppose - a person in a position of influence like does have to be careful of what they say. Harsh but reasonably fair, I'd support the ruling actually.
10-02-2007, 02:26 AM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #36
Condeded; its not the same issue, and oughtn't have any jurisdiction over you anyways.
But was a topical free-speech/censorship Supreme Court case, and with your issue fresh on my mind.. it just made me think of you.
I'm surprised it required a Supreme Court ruling, actually; when I was managing employees for my company, I was advised not to take political stances in front of and/or engage in political debates with my direct reports.
10-02-2007, 08:30 AM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #37
Originally posted by Kris:
OTF, as it has been mentioned, will come down harder then others as SI turn their attention towards it after the initial "hit" of the forums which carry the FM/OOTP/EHM name.
That's all I wanted to know - this is a new policy and we'll see more of it in the future. Noted.
10-02-2007, 03:40 PM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #38
Certainly an interesting debate in itself Amaroq, although probably not for this thread. There are, imo anyway, certain jobs where you carry an influence and as such give up your right to free speech whilst carrying out your job.
The teacher has a perfect right to hold her views and to express them. Just not in class time, as a teacher.
10-02-2007, 04:05 PM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #39
Unfortunately I don't have time to read the whole debate or the story that caused it, but on the whole issue of censorship here and being offended in general I have a few random points to add for what they are worth.
Personally it takes a huge amount to offend me - i.e. probably only a tirade of unpleasant comments directed specifically and personally at me rather than to any group that I belong to, be that a small group or even a large group like "English".
My attitude to being offended and complaining here is exactly the same as when I here that some number (always a very small number) of people have complained about the content of some TV program. On TV there is an "Off" button or the ability to change channels, here on this forum you can choose which threads you enter or not. If I find a story distasteful then I would just not bother reading it any more - I can censor myself when it comes to what I read or watch, I don't really want others to do it for me.
But I guess my opinion isn't too important since, as I say, I'm the kind of person who doesn't get offended at all easily.
10-02-2007, 04:38 PM
Censorship on FMS - Lets Have a Big Debate. Post #40
Personally, as a Welshman. I was not offended by the potentially racist comments in your story.
This is because it is a story & the comments made in it are therefore made by fictional characters. I, in fact, found the entire story funny & enjoyable.
However, if those same comments were made to me in real life, in a derogratery fashion, I would be extremely offended.
I believe the fact that it is a story means that anything said, in character, should be taken as such & not as the views of the Author themselves.
However, I understand SI's concerns & the issues, that this thread & the comments made by the story characters within it, could present the company.
My own personal view is that this Forum should continue in it's present form, but to include a disclaimer that not only legally protects SI, but also explains that all views expressed within this forum are that of fiction characters & are not intended to offend.
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